QX2059 Jumpseater tries to shutdown engines

Serious mental disorders are most commonly seen in families. Not much debate in the science. There is continued debate about whether it’s more hereditary or shared factors.

Sad or stressed is not the same as clinical depression or severe anxiety. Socioeconomic conditions contribute, but more in poor access to treatment than anything else.

If you have been close to folks with depression, you would know that its cycles don’t always align with external factors. That’s why we are surprised when friends with picture perfect lives kill themselves.
True. Most people don't know an airline pilot, but I'd guess most have friends and family members taking psychotropic drugs. The "doctors" prescribing this crap rather than trying to figure out what's wrong are just lazy. "You're depressed? Here's a pill, I'll see you next year.". The problem is when the pills take effect and scramble the wiring the patient feels great and decides they don't need that crutch and quit taking them and things get weird. I've been effected by this personally and I hope you're not asking for these prescription drugs to be legalized for pilots. How about we figure out what's wrong before we put a band-aid on it?
 
Cool we’re in the “just make the poor work more to fend off the sadness!” Phase of capitalism
Don’t be a jerk. I have suggested nothing like this.

Do you think I was happy with my girlfriend struggling to survive, afraid of being alone with her thoughts?

I have three mental health professionals in my family and volunteered at a treatment center for six years. I’m pretty conservative but access to mental health care is where I depart with many conservatives.
 
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I find it hard to find empathy for an airline captain having a "mental break". He'd been through the wringer and come out not only clean but proficient and professional. I wonder if at some point prior to this he'd thought to himself "Self, I'm not feeling very good." and he wasn't afraid of losing everything he'd worked towards perhaps he might've said something to somebody rather then taking shrooms on a layover. You all hate Todd, but you should respect him, he pulled himself out of the game voluntarily.
Seems like you never had an empathy chip installed. Shame.


Todd also had the comfort of landing in a lucrative real estate business. Details..
 
Seems like you never had an empathy chip installed. Shame.


Todd also had the comfort of landing in a lucrative real estate business. Details..

Yeah. In the current FAA environment, talking to someone is the quickest way to lose it all, provided you’re honest about it when it comes time to your medical.

Everyone I know who has done the right thing had quite a struggle to get it all back, if they did at all.
 
Seems like you never had an empathy chip installed. Shame.


Todd also had the comfort of landing in a lucrative real estate business. Details..
You completely misunderstood what I was saying. I do have empathy, while I can't relate I do feel for him. My point was how do we improve?
 
Yeah. In the current FAA environment, talking to someone is the quickest way to lose it all, provided you’re honest about it when it comes time to your medical.

Everyone I know who has done the right thing had quite a struggle to get it all back, if they did at all.

Yep, it almost seems like a trap.

Oh, we can treat depression. Suicidal ideation or attempts, you can drive a bus.
 
I find it hard to find empathy for an airline captain having a "mental break". He'd been through the wringer and come out not only clean but proficient and professional. I wonder if at some point prior to this he'd thought to himself "Self, I'm not feeling very good." and he wasn't afraid of losing everything he'd worked towards perhaps he might've said something to somebody rather then taking shrooms on a layover. You all hate Todd, but you should respect him, he pulled himself out of the game voluntarily.
I actually like him and maintain contact thru another platform. Doesn't mean we always agree but divergent opinions either help me understand my own better or challenge me to consider change🤷‍♂️
 
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Todd also had the comfort of landing in a lucrative real estate business. Details..

Wasn’t it a business started by his father? Without knowing the family dynamics involved, it is a lot easier to slide in to a lucrative field when your parents have an established business. A guy I know is in the same boat (grew up with successful family business) and even he calls it being a member of the lucky sperm club.
 
I find it hard to find empathy for an airline captain having a "mental break". He'd been through the wringer and come out not only clean but proficient and professional. I wonder if at some point prior to this he'd thought to himself "Self, I'm not feeling very good." and he wasn't afraid of losing everything he'd worked towards perhaps he might've said something to somebody rather then taking shrooms on a layover. You all hate Todd, but you should respect him, he pulled himself out of the game voluntarily.

Listen...


Joe is a personal friend. He started as an intern with AAG before getting hired at Horizon, and eventually VX/AS. He has had an impressive and trouble-free career for over 20 years. He has been an SME, a program manager and creator, an instructor, and more. He is also a husband and a father to two kids. He is a human. He is a good person. He lost his way and made a mistake, a mistake that was extremely bad. Good people make mistakes and do bad things. He has lots of friends who love him very much. I was fortunate to be on a call with friends today and was able to talk to his wife for a bit, and you know what? When you hear the wife of a man who went from an extremely well-respected pilot and member of the community, to an accused lunatic and potential hijacker, and you hear her in hysterics, it really makes you understand just how shocking this is to everyone, including Joe

It is easy to discount this and brush it off as a druggy-depressed pilot who tripped in the flight deck and tried to take the plane down. I can tell you, that it isn't that easy. We don't give a flying expitive about mental health in this country and even less so in the aviation community. What are we supposed to do when you can't raise a flag and say you need help without losing your career potentially?
 
Listen...


Joe is a personal friend. He started as an intern with AAG before getting hired at Horizon, and eventually VX/AS. He has had an impressive and trouble-free career for over 20 years. He has been an SME, a program manager and creator, an instructor, and more. He is also a husband and a father to two kids. He is a human. He is a good person. He lost his way and made a mistake, a mistake that was extremely bad. Good people make mistakes and do bad things. He has lots of friends who love him very much. I was fortunate to be on a call with friends today and was able to talk to his wife for a bit, and you know what? When you hear the wife of a man who went from an extremely well-respected pilot and member of the community, to an accused lunatic and potential hijacker, and you hear her in hysterics, it really makes you understand just how shocking this is to everyone, including Joe

It is easy to discount this and brush it off as a druggy-depressed pilot who tripped in the flight deck and tried to take the plane down. I can tell you, that it isn't that easy. We don't give a flying expitive about mental health in this country and even less so in the aviation community. What are we supposed to do when you can't raise a flag and say you need help without losing your career potentially?
You're preaching to the choir. My brother, on a random Tuesday, laid out a moving blanket and a sleeping bag in his garage, made sure all of the doors were closed, started his lawn mower and took a nap he never woke up from. His 10 yr old daughter found him when she got home from school. To pretend I have no empathy for his family is disingenuous, my opinion is biased.
 
You're preaching to the choir. My brother, on a random Tuesday, laid out a moving blanket and a sleeping bag in his garage, made sure all of the doors were closed, started his lawn mower and took a nap he never woke up from. His 10 yr old daughter found him when she got home from school. To pretend I have no empathy for his family is disingenuous, my opinion is biased.
😢
 
Sweetheart, he tried to kill 80 people. Someone who lets the intrusive thoughts win and drives their car into a crowd should face the same consequences.

The difference is people buy a ticket based on trust that the two in the pointy end are gonna get em home safely. The system needs to support the two in the pointy end better. Give them options and a path to deal with their ish. Not just lie to their AME.
Wait! What?? Given the current circumstances, you actually believe that people TRUST airlines??!! You actually reckon that those poor schlubbs have ANY SCINTILLA of an idea of how airlines really work?

The vast majority of people have no idea what TRUST even means. They might, and all too often, believe they do; but they don't. Many don't even care or feel like they should, because they possess even fewer faculties regarding how to assess their lack of insight. In the rare event they get tickled by some inkling of their ignorance, most possess even fewer insights regarding how to rectify their massive intellectual lacunae. Most just revert to blaming "da gubmin't" or "dem outsider others".

Biz people tolerate airlines, 'cause, given our current demands for travel, many biz people have to tolerate the intolerable and travel in order to keep their jobs. And they need their jobs, 'cause without those jobs, they stop eating, etc., etc. Many other people keep flying because they have ZERO idea and NO insights into how to calculate risk of any type, and they'd really just rather get drunk in a Florida bar than get drunk in a bar back home in, say, Minnesota.

Commerce and, well, civilization itself CAN NOT sustain and abide without TRUST. That, my dear friend, was lost at least a decade ago, only a few short years after the anti-SOCIAL/unMEDIAted revolution first advanced from crawling and started walking around in the world to begin infecting the great unwashed with fever dreams of conspiracies directed at them, personally!

As a mere kid, I knew with utter certainly that the 2008/09 meltdown - structurally and factually - was imminent way back in the mid 90s. My only surprise was that it took sooooooo long for all the profit makers and chumps to finally stop playing the bigger-idiot game, banking coin, and FINALLY admit that the emperor was actually naked. That happened at Davos, when the CEOs of major global banks finally told the FT reporter that they didn't really trust the other banks to custodian their overnight sweeps. That's when money market funds started breaking the buck, the snowball started rolling down the mountain, etc., etc., etc. When a system under tension finally seeks equilibrium, that system does NOT unwind at the same slow speed at which it was wound. Just ask a stick of dynamite.

Now, the almost half of the former Reagan Administration that "invested" in Theranos... I don't know? Did they have TRUST in the company? Or did they just TRUST their Frat Bros who had already "invested" and wanted to share the shame of doing exactly ZERO due diligence??

TRUST is different from BELIEF.

So, back to your apparent main point...

Sure, stupid SHOULD die, and that right quick. It just shouldn't take ME with it. In other words, the evolutionary process should take out the specific individuals who are unworthy of reproducing. It should NOT take out everybody. But in a econ-tech-concentrated world, evolutionary rules have changed.

Also, as strange as it may seem to you, I still believe in empathy and giving qualified folks a second chance.

Got my vibe now??

In case you missed it, it's pretty much this: Know (broadly and deeply) what's going on before making blanket statements. Based on that deep understanding (wisdom???), give a rat's ass about your fellow human beings and fellow species. Treat others as you'd like to be treated. Trust others as you'd like to be trusted. Don't do nuthin' stoopid. Don't hit nuthin'!
 
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Sweetheart, he tried to kill 80 people. Someone who lets the intrusive thoughts win and drives their car into a crowd should face the same consequences.

The difference is people buy a ticket based on trust that the two in the pointy end are gonna get em home safely. The system needs to support the two in the pointy end better. Give them options and a path to deal with their ish. Not just lie to their AME.
Just to make it easy for you... with fewer words.

Maybe AK should have kept the prayer napkins.

Believing a prayer keeps an airplane flying is surely just as stupid as allowing a dude on 'schrooms to sit in a cockpit, yeah?

But hey, maybe the good, caring, Jeebus-luvin' management geniuses at AK thought the various types of magical thinking would cancel each other out, and everyone could blithely just keep putting coin in the bank. IDK?
 
Wait! What?? Given the current circumstances, you actually believe that people TRUST airlines??!! You actually reckon that those poor schlubbs have ANY SCINTILLA of an idea of how airlines really work?

The vast majority of people have no idea what TRUST even means. They might, and all too often, believe they do; but they don't. Many don't even care or feel like they should, because they possess even fewer faculties regarding how to assess their lack of insight. In the rare event they get tickled by some inkling of their ignorance, most possess even fewer insights regarding how to rectify their massive intellectual lacunae. Most just revert to blaming "da gubmin't" or "dem outsider others".

Biz people tolerate airlines, 'cause, given our current demands for travel, many biz people have to tolerate the intolerable and travel in order to keep their jobs. And they need their jobs, 'cause without those jobs, they stop eating, etc., etc. Many other people keep flying because they have ZERO idea and NO insights into how to calculate risk of any type, and they'd really just rather get drunk in a Florida bar than get drunk in a bar back home in, say, Minnesota.

Commerce and, well, civilization itself CAN NOT sustain and abide without TRUST. That, my dear friend, was lost at least a decade ago, only a few short years after the anti-SOCIAL/unMEDIAted revolution first advanced from crawling and started walking around in the world to begin infecting the great unwashed with fever dreams of conspiracies directed at them, personally!

Structurally and factually, I, as a mere kid, knew with utter certainly that the 2008/09 meltdown was imminent way back in the mid 90s. My only surprise was that it took sooooooo long for all the profit makers and chumps to finally stop playing the bigger-idiot game, banking coin, and FINALLY admit that the emperor was actually naked. That happened at Davos, when the CEOs of major global banks finally told the FT reporter that they didn't really trust the other banks to custodian their overnight sweeps. That's when money market funds started breaking the buck, the snowball started rolling down the mountain, etc., etc., etc. When a system under tension finally seeks equilibrium, that system does NOT unwind at the same slow speed at which it was wound. Just ask a stick of dynamite.

Now, the almost half of the former Reagan Administration that "invested" in Theranos... I don't know? Did they have TRUST in the company? Or did they just TRUST their Frat Bros who had already "invested" and wanted to share the shame of doing exactly ZERO due diligence??

TRUST is different from BELIEF.

So, back to your apparent main point...

Sure, stupid SHOULD die, and that right quick. It just shouldn't take ME with it. In other words, the evolutionary process should take out the specific individuals who are unworthy of reproducing. It should NOT take out everybody. But in a econ-tech-concentrated world, evolutionary rules have changed.

Also, as strange as it may seem to you, I still believe in empathy and giving qualified folks a second chance.

Got my vibe now??

In case you missed it, it's pretty much this: Know (broadly and deeply) what's going on before making blanket statements. Based on that deep understanding (wisdom???), give a rat's ass about your fellow human beings and fellow species. Treat others as you'd like to be treated. Trust others as you'd like to be trusted. Don't do nuthin' stoopid. Don't hit nuthin'!
With respect, I'd note that - despite your protestations - you also paint with too broad a brush. You may be correct in the aggregate but you overlook the thousands of individuals (tens of thousands?) who TRUST and believe in others around them with their lives and very being in a place where there is no theory but only the hard reality of the moment in fire or flood or hazardous environment. One may not particularly like an individual but when that person is part of your team searching above a fire without a hoseline you TRUST them, political and theoretical differences be damned.

Perhaps I've misunderstood your intent, and I'd willingly learn more.

Genuine trust, in the midst of personal difference, absolutely exists within our culture and well-beyond the scope of the theoretical. If you haven't experienced that, I can suggest a couple different venues where you might learn it, if so desired. Sadly, there would be a hell'uva personal cost in so doing, though it would make a difference.
 
Just to make it easy for you...

Maybe AK should have kept the prayer napkins.

Believing a prayer keeps an airplane flying is surely just as stupid as allowing a dude on 'schrooms to sit in a cockpit, yeah?

But hey, maybe the good, caring, Jeebus-luvin' management geniuses at AK thought the various types of magical thinking would cancel each other out, and everyone could blithely just keep putting coin in the bank. IDK?

I think religion is a cancer that needs removed from society. None the less, congrats on becoming the fourth person on my ignore list. You’re irritating, but at least you’re long winded when you do so.
 
I think what you mean is middle class people are more able to get diagnosed and treated. That just means that people who don’t have those luxuries are more likely to deal with those feelings in more destructive ways.
Nope. That’s not what the article I read opined.
 
With respect, I'd note that - despite your protestations - you also paint with too broad a brush. You may be correct in the aggregate but you overlook the thousands of individuals (tens of thousands?) who TRUST and believe in others around them with their lives and very being in a place where there is no theory but only the hard reality of the moment in fire or flood or hazardous environment. One may not particularly like an individual but when that person is part of your team searching above a fire without a hoseline you TRUST them, political and theoretical differences be damned.

Perhaps I've misunderstood your intent, and I'd willingly learn more.

Genuine trust, in the midst of personal difference, absolutely exists within our culture and well-beyond the scope of the theoretical. If you haven't experienced that, I can suggest a couple different venues where you might learn it, if so desired. Sadly, there would be a hell'uva personal cost in so doing, though it would make a difference.
Thanks, Bob. Your considered responses and insights are always deeply appreciated.

I understand that trust still exists at a micro level. I HAVE experienced that kind of trust. I do, still, experience that level of trust. If I had not, I would not be able to recognize the value of such, and to evangelize for the value of such.

I'm just saying that person-to-person trust at that micro level is NOT sufficient. Trust at that level must be so profound and assumed as ooze into and suffuse the entire culture. We must have a general sense that we are all pulling on the same rope in the same direction.

Sadly, trust at the personal level is, more often than not, predicated on tribal affiliation. The idea that WE trust one another based on our commonly understood fight against THEM. WE share a mission that no one else understands. WE, therefore are important.

Alignment of force is the key to any successful organization; from a sports team or platoon, to a company, to a nation, to a planet-sustaining global civilization. WE must educate to align all of OUR efforts toward what serves ALL of us; In such a way that I can trust somebody I've never met to have my best interests in mind in the same fashion that I have his best interests in mind. There is no US. There is no THEM. There is just OUR common goal.

In our current world "we" are rapidly. intentionally being directed into devolving into a humanity of distrust and hate. A humanity of "Fruit YOU! I've got mine!"

That will NOT end well. It never has. We have AMPLE historical evidence for that statement. Some will say, "well, yeah, that's just how it has always been". Well, for most of human history, it had always been that we moved around the world -not too far- by walking. I'm NOT a believer in how it always HAS been. I'm a believer in progress. I believe we CAN improve. We CAN do better. I have trust in that. I have faith in that.

The problem now is that "WE' peasants are intentionally being seduced into building almost ALL of our human systems based upon a false religion of selfish opportunism. We are intentionally and systematically being enticed to assume that ME matters, that GREED is good, and that therefore, we peasants must of course distrust and hate each other, and especially hate "those others". WE are being incited to hate "the other".

I'd argue that, instead of allowing a few rich folks to inculcate all of us poor people with the idea that getting and hoarding is the goal of a human life, we might much better teach the people of the world to trust each other in the same way we trust a sibling or a battle buddy. WE might do well to support EACH OTHER in pursuit of what what we all NEED, and give up believing in the futille fantasies of those who try to convince us to WANT, and to WANT, and to WANT...

Needs can be met. Wants are insatiable; that's their whole point.

Ultimately, we are ALL on the same side. We ALL live downwind and downstream of ALL the rest of us. There IS no hiding, regardless of how many energy chits (currency) one has collected.

We ALL live on a small, vulnerable, living and life-giving chunk of rock in the midst of an infinite, cold, harsh, empty place. We were, by most origin stories, given divine powers. I suggest we stop fighting, pooping where we eat, and putting ALL of us -and other species- at existential risk. Rather, let US assume a more appropriate manifestation of our god-like nature. If we don't, we're just neo-post monkeys hoarding Ferraris instead of bananas. And, if that's the case, we deserve just what we get.

Yet, if we don't change our ways... If we don't assume our divine nature... If we don't act smart... We will still be guilty of the murder of billions and the murder of many, many other species, many of which we haven't even bothered to discover yet as, instead, the super wealthy spend OUR money trying to flee US for the "freedom" of Mars.
 
I think religion is a cancer that needs removed from society. None the less, congrats on becoming the fourth person on my ignore list. You’re irritating, but at least you’re long winded when you do so.
Hey! You replied to the short version. And you agreed with the basic premise. The fact that a mere 73 words induced your need to pound sand, take your toys and go home... Well, might be a good reason to go seek some professional help, yeah?

You wouldn't want to end up the next jump-seater to overreact to the effects of a non-real, personal-jeebus interpretation of reality. None of us would want that.
 
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