Public Appeal to user: ERJ-135-ATA's Gary Grell


Apparently a "terse" writer
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Public Appeal to user: ERJ-135-ATA\'s Gary Grell

Hey Gary-

I think you guys should at least have the common decency to step up and offer the students their money back.

Sorry for calling you on the carpet like this, but this entire situation is putting another black eye on the entire community not to mention that Jim Williams hasn't made any statements yet.

But most importantly, the Williams' need to act like men and pay the students back their deposits.
Re: Public Appeal to user: ERJ-135-ATA\'s Gary Grell

ERJ-135 = Gary Grell = One of the big wigs at ATA. I think he might have been director of marketing and a pilot as well.
Re: Public Appeal to user: ERJ-135-ATA\'s Gary Grell

Gary grell was the training coordinator / recruiter
Re: Public Appeal to user: ERJ-135-ATA\'s Gary Grell

To Gary and Jim of ATA,

To quote the late MLK Jr.

"the measure of a man is not where he stands during times of comfort and convenience but where he stands during times of challenge and controversy".

Gary and Jim be men. Don't act like a bunch of bastards!
Re: Public Appeal to user: ERJ-135-ATA\'s Gary Grell

Hey Doug,
Wasn't ERJ-135 the gentleman who a few of us had squables with a while back. He continually painted a glowing picture of ATA and a gloomy picture of all competitors? He never once admitted that he was an ATA rep/owner, rather that he was good friends with someone there. If I remember correctly, I was "repremanded" for suggesting he was from ATA by yours truly.

When did you find out what I had concluded was true?

I hate to say it, but if ERJ-135 = ATA's Gary Grell, there is going need to be one heck of a transformation for him to see his past wrongs, or to do what is right. That man has no shame.
Re: Public Appeal to user: ERJ-135-ATA\'s Gary Grell

Yup, that was him.

Raises my blood pressure just thinking about the situatoin. GRR.

In retrospect, I had to spank some of the ATA guys for spamming my users, posting obvious advertisements and I even had to ban some of the users from the domain until they agreed to follow the forum rules.
Re: Public Appeal to user: ERJ-135-ATA\'s Gary Grell

Thats the guy that sent me some stuff in the mail two weeks ago. Like I said in a previous post, it was mailed out the 23rd of Feb. The boat was sinking and they were still fishing! I hope they do some jail time and become bubba's biotches!
Re: Public Appeal to user: ERJ-135-ATA\'s Gary Grell

Sorry it took me so long to respond to Doug’s request. I had to do some soul searching as to what really happened at ATA.

OK, here’s the scoop on my position at ATA and what was my main role in all of this mess.

My position was working as a Training Coordinator. It is just a fancy title for a person in a marketing and sales position. The Williams’ did not like the word sales person, so to be politically correct; they called us Training Coordinator’s. Prior to the 9/11 tragedy, three Training Coordinator’s handled all the potential student contacts, mail-outs, phone contacts and tours of the academy. After 9/11, one of the Coordinator’s left for personal reasons. We took a drastic pay cut and he was not willing to stay until things got better.

Till the last day, we had no knowledge of the pending closure. I feel bad about what the academy did to the student’s future. It is a crime and the Williams’ should be brought to justice. I only lost one week salary; the students have lost a future and money.

Here are three reasons I had no inside information. The Williams’ really kept quiet on a lot of issues. Prior to the closure, as a matter of fact, on Wednesday 02/26, I had made reservations for RT flight to MKE from MCO to set up a booth and work the Oshkosh air show this summer. I don’t think Scott Williams would have instructed me to book the flights if he was about to close the academy. Monday 02/24, a new Training Coordinator started. We needed extra help in making contacts of potential students. We anticipated that the new ads would generate new leads. I really feel that the Williams’ were trying to do everything to keep the academy open. ATA had just redesigned their ads and also had signed new advertising contracts with 3 major flying magazines. The first new ad appeared in the March issue of AOPA Pilot magazine. The other magazines are: Flying, and AOPA’s Flight Training.

I know the students think Steve and I are scum bags and responsible for their loss. We were trying our best to keep the enrollment going each month which helped pay the bills.
If the Williams’ family was that far behind in the payment of expenses, we had no inside information that things were that bad. Yes, we had some slow months, but we also had good months. We never knew what the absolute bottom dollar amount was per month, to keep the doors open. Steve and I worked many a Saturday and Sunday, on our time giving tours and trying to keep the enrollment coming. It just was not good enough.

Did the Williams’ family dip into the funds? I really don’t know. Did they try and do everything to keep the academy open? I believe they tried everything until the end.

I have nothing to do with the refunds, so don't be to harsh on the messenger.
Re: Public Appeal to user: ERJ-135-ATA\'s Gary Grell

Hey Gary-

Thanks for helping clear things up and for having the fortitude to come back to Jetcareers.

Perhaps you may have some information which may help the former student's legal counsel?
Re: Public Appeal to user: ERJ-135-ATA\'s Gary Grell

While that sounds real nice, I can't count how many "tours" I heard yourself and Steve give where you were still telling prospective students that AS II was a 4-month program while I was in my 5th, 6th and 7th month due to the school not offering us the classes we were promised. You may not have been in on the whole "big picture", but you were certainly guilty of "shading" the picture you gave to potential new students and to my mind, that taints any protestations of innocence or ignorance you offer now.
Re: Public Appeal to user: ERJ-135-ATA\'s Gary Grell

Yep, I too was told 10 months for the entire program when there were students there in ASII that were in their 14th month and it wasn't because they weren't trying.
Re: Public Appeal to user: ERJ-135-ATA\'s Gary Grell

Flewa72 & Marcus

I will agree that the academy extended the times for ASII in an effort to keep students as ready as possible for the interview when and if it took place. It was in the student’s best interest, to extend the training in expectations of airline increasing their hire rates. Would you have been ready if you did finish in the 10 months listed time period and it was 6 months thereafter before you were called for the airline interview? Most students would not be ready. The hiring rate at the regionals was very slow, but it did exist.

What the academy management (Rob Williams, ASII Mgr.) should have done is be up-front with the time period, and why it was extended. It is in your best interest to be as interview and jet-sim ready as possible. You would be saying the same thing if you had finished in the 10 months, waited another 6 months for the interview and failed the interview. Would you blame the school because they finished you early and you had to wait to long? It is the airline down turn that is to blame. Can you tell us what the hiring is going to be in the next 10 to 12 months? I don’t think so. A lot had to do with looking ahead. The airlines had started the hiring, back in July of “02”, and then it slowed to zero. The United Airline’s pending and eventual bankruptcy put a hold on ACA receiving the new RJ’s as planned and it put a stop on new hires. Are the former ATA students, now furloughed at ACA, blaming the school for being furloughed? Again, it was a gamble, and unfortunately ATA, employees and its students lost.

The school could not shut down until the airlines recovered. No one knew what the airline situation was until much later after the 9/11 tragedy. In order to keep up enrollment and keep the school operating, a refund promotion was started for those students that enrolled during a specific time period. The students had a refund clause statement in the contract that granted a refund for the cost of ASII if the student did not receive an interview with a regional airline within 45 days of finishing ASII. This was a promotional program that worked as long as the hiring rates picked up. Another promotional program that was used is the additional flight and ground training for the CFI/II Certificates without additional cost to the student. It would give the students the opportunity to remain current, while teaching, if the airlines did not show any hiring at the time the student completed training.

Students had a choice to enroll and take the chance that the airlines would be hiring when they finished. The choice you made is one that was not up to ATA. Steve and I only presented the existing program at the time you enrolled. There were more potential students that chose to wait then there were students that enrolled. Can you tell me what the hire rates are going to be at the regional airlines in the summer of 2004? You can’t and the school could not either. You would praise the school if you finished on time and was hired. You blame the school for extending the time to finish. It was in your best interest that ATA held you back.

I stayed with the school until the very end because of a belief of a potential airline recovery. I do not blame the school for all that happened. Students and employees of ATA are now casualties of the 9/11 tragedy. I feel bad about being kept in the dark and not knowing the school’s actual money situation. If Steve and I had known how bad things really were, we would have worked 7 days a week until we had recovered. Steve and I weren’t paid for working on the weekends or past normal working hours. The academy hired an extra Training Coordinator, the last open week, to help, but it was too late. The academy paid for new ads, but it was too late. We had talked about rotating nights and Saturday’s in an effort to talk with prospective students. The timing was off by only a month or maybe two. The new aviation magazine ads would have generated more brochure requests and possibly more enrolled students. It would have helped the academy remain in operation until the airlines started to recover. Again, it was all projected on the airlines recovery. The existing war, that the USA is undergoing, had more to do with ATA closing than the 9/11 tragedy. The doom and gloom that the media plays is more to blame than the 9/11 tragedy.
Re: Public Appeal to user: ERJ-135-ATA\'s Gary Grell

Come on, that BS is what we've been fed since we started. As everyone who went to that school knows the delays were 100% due to cost cutting in maintenance and the number of instructors. The airplanes were down for MX more than they were flying, and ASII classes were delayed as the school didn't have enough instructors, or classrooms. I never made it into ASII, but many students were waiting months to get into a particualr class just because there wasn't room or the school didn't have an instructor. It had nothing to do with anything you said. I can't believe that you are still defending them at this point. Either you are STILL lying, or you were also lied to the whole time, in which case I would expect you to stand up with the students and not defend that bunch of disgusting, fat-assed, theives. I should have trusted my gut the first time I laid eyes on both Rob Williams and Scott Williams and thought they were the slimiest pieces of fat garbage I had ever seen. The only thing that got me into that room to sign the contract after indoc was that Coruptin Jim is a VERY convincing and likeable liar.

>The students had a refund clause statement in the contract
>that granted a refund for the cost of ASII if the student
>did not receive an interview with a regional airline
>within 45 days of finishing ASII.

Good job they closed the doors and stole everyone's money before having to give any refunds out. That was close.

>Another promotional program that was used is the
>additional flight and ground training for the CFI/II
>Certificates without additional cost to the student.

More complete BS, I was charged and additional $15k for my CSEL, CFI, CFII, and MEI, of which I never flew an hour or sat in on one ground school.

>Students had a choice to enroll and take the chance that
>the airlines would be hiring when they finished

Guess what, you're lying there too. Up to the day I started in Oct 2001 I was still told I'd be out of there in 10 months at American Eagle. Then every single month we were told that hiring would be picking up within amonth or so.

>The academy paid for new ads

I have spent years working with the print advertising industry doing freelance ads for both small and large, multi national companies and NO-ONE has to pay for their ads up front UNLESS they are a: a first time advertiser which ATA obviously wasn't, or b:THEY HAVEN'T BEEN PAYING THEIR BILLS. I wonder which category ATA falls into, unless saying they were prepaid is a lie too.

Please, please, please stop lying. When your sorry, fat ass loving piece of garbage self gets dragged into court to testify against those pieces of crap, if you lie there too, they will lock you up for it (hopefully in the same cell as those fat pieces of crap)
Re: Public Appeal to user: ERJ-135-ATA\'s Gary Grell

Well, Its been awhile but felt the need to respond. ERJ-135, you seem alittle defensive, wonder why.

You and I have had numerous postings back and forth when you questioned whether I was actually a previous student in 2000-2001. I responded with very accurate details regarding the training and airport used. In turn you called me a liar. You sir (I use this with no respect in the normal sense) are just as wrong as the owners. You continued telling people that 10 months they would be at the airlines yet in your current response you stated that it was in the students best interest to have it (unknowingly) delayed therefore the students were intentionally and knowingly mislead with the amount of time they would be there. You stated that the owners should have been up front with the students, you and Steve were the ones students were referred to when they telephoned so you and Steve provided the inaccurate time frames with the knowledge it wasn't true. Regarding the sale ads in the magazines, does the term False advertisement mean anything " qualify for an airline interview in under 500 hours and 10 months..." Flying mag. 02-03. By staying employed there and continuing to promote the business you, in my opinion are just as wrong as the owners. 9/11 only made closing happen faster, students were bailing prior to 9/11.

The promotion as you described, of decrease in ASII from 30K to 15K was offered to me in 03-2000 but I refused because they couldn't meet that agreement/promise for my 7 month finish time let alone 10 months. Yes, 7 months I should have been at the airlines, would I complain now? No because I would be employed, furloughed but employed. The current airline employees (graduates) can't complain as you mentioned earlier because they have no complaint, they are at the airlines.

Offered the 15K reduction but not offered the refund until after the completion of ASII, Why. Just another fact to consider during the legal proceedings. I would love to be on the civil jury or just a witness for the complainants.

If any of the students are reading this (MARCUS) print off the last post of ERJ-135 for your case. Its amazing whats in it. Better yet, I will and you can contact me if needed in case he edits it.

Soley my opinion, ERJ-135 you were incorrect in the information provided to prospective students and according to your post knowing it was incorrect for the time frame. ATA continued to give the impression (pre 9/11) in 2000-early 2001 the airlines would continue to hire at the current rate. ATA cannot be blamed for the down turn after 09-11-2001, but in turn needed to inform the students of the outlook. I mean the true outlook, everything I thought would happen has happened with the airlines down turn and I only have one friend that is employed at AA.

Any other responses ERJ-135?
Re: Public Appeal to user: ERJ-135-ATA\'s Gary Grell

You guys have to give some props to Gary.

He could have disappeared entirely and not shown up but perhaps he could be of some use in the struggle to get at the Williams clan.
Re: Public Appeal to user: ERJ-135-ATA\'s Gary Grell

Yes Doug, I must agree and give Gary credit for at least showing up and responding. However, reading his posts here and from the past you can see the inconsistentcies in his statements. He should really consider reading the "Miranda warning" we as police officers must give to a suspect prior to questioning them and allowing them to speak. But again his unsolicited statements there is no need.
Re: Public Appeal to user: ERJ-135-ATA\'s Gary Grell

" the students best interest"? How was sticking around ORL, paying a mortgage at home and inflated housing prices there, without a job, waiting aimlessly for classes to be scheduled in my best interest? Or for that matter, the schools? If students finished in the promised amount of time and went home they could be earning a living and not be hanging around the halls b***ching about the school, bringing everyones morale down.
Sure it would cost the school a little bit to get us back up to speed come interview time. But with fewer people hanging around taking up space and lowering morale, chances are they could have brought more students in. I have not spoken to a single student who would not have preferred finishing on schedule and returning for refresher training.
Face it ERJ-135, there was simply no justification for lying to prospective students whether you thought the "extensions" were justified or not!