PSA Rumor

Sheets to the wind! Holly gum drops people. Sorry I asked the question. I should have known better than asking anything when it comes to Regional Airlines. Just like I learned years ago to never to speak my opinion on how great ALPA is and how successful they been at protecting pay and quality of life (sarcasm).

Okay. That said. It would have been nice for someone just to have simply stated the answer to my question. So I will answer my own damn question from what I gathered from reading through this BS. The answer appears to be...

"It is just a rumor. The mainline is simply shopping around to find the best utilization for the aircraft to maximize their profit. No decision has been made yet. And it appears there is no timeframe on a decision yet either." Nuff said. And thanks TexasFlyer for answering your own question.

Okay. Now the other problem. All this BS is making me already rethink my decision to go to a Regional. So for the love of aviation. Please someone tell me something positive about their job as a Regional Pilot. We all know you are paid like crap and you have a marginal quality of life. But there still must be a positive aspect out there. Anyone?
 
TexasFlyer said:
Sheets to the wind! Holly gum drops people. Sorry I asked the question. I should have known better than asking anything when it comes to Regional Airlines. Just like I learned years ago to never to speak my opinion on how great ALPA is and how successful they been at protecting pay and quality of life (sarcasm).

Okay. That said. It would have been nice for someone just to have simply stated the answer to my question. So I will answer my own damn question from what I gathered from reading through this BS. The answer appears to be...

"It is just a rumor. The mainline is simply shopping around to find the best utilization for the aircraft to maximize their profit. No decision has been made yet. And it appears there is no timeframe on a decision yet either." Nuff said. And thanks TexasFlyer for answering your own question.

Okay. Now the other problem. All this BS is making me already rethink my decision to go to a Regional. So for the love of aviation. Please someone tell me something positive about their job as a Regional Pilot. We all know you are paid like crap and you have a marginal quality of life. But there still must be a positive aspect out there. Anyone?
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There are tons of positives as long as you stay out of the crew room and the forums.
 
TallFlyer said:
As for negotiating, my position is negotiations don't even start until mainline puts strong flow language on the table.
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This is another perfect example of why one should sit back an observe....

First, it would be illegal for mainline pilot unions to put flow on the table as they don't represent a pilot at one if their regional feeders.

Secondly, as it is illegal for mainline pilot unions to negotiate scope for their regional partners, it is up to the regional airline unions to negotiate it.

Thirdly, the regional airline unions may come to realize that there are better ways to get their folks at mainline airlines outside of flow agreements.

Fourthly, if you want to 'fix' the regional airline I suggest you look at the legislation initiatives a few years ago that makes a mainline partner fully responsible for their regional feed.
 
TexasFlyer, just so you are fully aware of the back story...

PSA actually had flowthrough in two different places in the contract. First, as part of a bankruptcy deal where in exchange for taking concessions (which were actually pretty small) the pilots would be given flow up to mainline at some point in time. The problem was that at the time it really didn't look like the company was going to make it (and being a wholly owned, PSA was the lifeboat attached to the Titanic) so nobody bothered to actually write up the language for the flow up and as such, it never actually materialized.

The second time around Mainline was furloughing. They also were trying to place 85 shiny new RJs (mostly 200s with options for 700s down the road). They shopped them around to the three wholly owned carriers (Piedmont, Allegheny and PSA) and depending on who you listen to, either PSA MEC stabbed the other two MECs in the back and and took the jets for a cheaper rate or, the jets were going to come to PSA either way due to PSA Management (TK... ask for some stories about him once you get on line) was the only group to come into the meeting with any sort of plan for bringing a new fleet type on line.

Part of the deal for getting the jets was the Jets For Jobs program where half of the seats (both left and right) would go to Mainline furloughed pilots. In exchange for giving up half our seats we were supposed to get flow up, one pilot for every J4J we took. A thing of note... several other companies took J4Js (Mesa was one) and they did NOT get the flow up clause. Of course, our MEC blew it again at the time and based on some promises coming from Crystal City, VA at Mainline HQ they agreed to a deal that included the language "flow through in LOA To Be Determined". They meant it as a placeholder, it ended up being a phantom. So, no flow up.

That's why when we negotiated a contract this time around we tried to get actual hard language in and the best we could do was guaranteed interviews for PSA pilots. The thing is though of course, it's nothing more than they were actually doing (3 a month min) but at least there is (somewhat) concrete language now.

As to why you took so much crap when you posted this thread originally... I think guys that have been doing this for a while realize that about 95% of what you hear on the line, in crewrooms and ESPECIALLY on the internetz is somebody just mouthing off to get a rise out of people or somebody who seriously misunderstood something they saw and instead of asking it as a question state it as a fact. Airlines often do a miserable job of communicating with their employees and as such people go looking for any info they can. And if they can't find any they sometimes will just make something up. We (who have been doing this for a while) know this and when somebody who is brand new bites on something like that, I think we can forget what it's like to NOT know that most of what you read and hear is complete BS and the easiest way to get through it to just ignore it, or if you are bored, try to come up with a better rumor.

Don't worry too much. Whatever happens happens and you are pretty much just along for the ride.

(probably lots of typing errors in this one... I was trying to get it written and posted before I had to run to the airport to catch my flight home... assuming I can get there before Flossie does)
 
Thanks BobDDuck. I learned my lesson after asking that question. I won't be asking anymore questions in regard to Regionals on here. Will just learn things on my own for now and then find a good real life mentor once on the line. If anything, this should be an interesting ride and learning experience.
 
TexasFlyer said:
Okay. Now the other problem. All this BS is making me already rethink my decision to go to a Regional. So for the love of aviation. Please someone tell me something positive about their job as a Regional Pilot. We all know you are paid like crap and you have a marginal quality of life. But there still must be a positive aspect out there. Anyone?
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I dunno, I wouldn't call my quality of life "marginal," but I don't commute to reserve anymore, I drive 45 minutes(ish) to work, and I hold a line in which I've traded away the garbage I don't want. Granted it's usually the worst of the lines, but compared to what I was facing a year and a half ago I'm quite happy. I do want to be paid more, but I don't know anyone who doesn't have that problem.

I love my job, truthfully: the flying I do is a lot of fun (even with its repetitious nature, early shows and late releases) and the people I work with are on average excellent as well. The airplanes are old but generally well taken care of where it matters, the weather's almost always great, and the scenery is gorgeous. The days are long, the pay is...livable and I generally manage to scrape together more days off than I did at my previous employer. I'm going to complain about having to go to work anyway ("every effin' Wednesday?!"), but that's what pilots do. I have travel benefits too.

(it's widely said that RJ FO is the easiest job on the planet...since I've been both an RJ FO and a turboprop FO, I'll agree: the RJ guys have a much easier time.)

BobDDuck said:
As to why you took so much crap when you posted this thread originally... I think guys that have been doing this for a while realize that about 95% of what you hear on the line, in crewrooms and ESPECIALLY on the internetz is somebody just mouthing off to get a rise out of people or somebody who seriously misunderstood something they saw and instead of asking it as a question state it as a fact. Airlines often do a miserable job of communicating with their employees and as such people go looking for any info they can. And if they can't find any they sometimes will just make something up. We (who have been doing this for a while) know this and when somebody who is brand new bites on something like that, I think we can forget what it's like to NOT know that most of what you read and hear is complete BS and the easiest way to get through it to just ignore it, or if you are bored, try to come up with a better rumor.
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This is spot on. Of the set of rumors floating around my employer right now, I think I believe less than ten per cent of them. I'm still waiting for Embraer to give us a deal on new Brasilias, since we're now a "very good" customer for the E-Jet. :D
 
I'd rather screw (prop) my way across the country than blow (turbofan).

Colgan 1900 FO - worked my ass off, open door, walk arounds, FFOD's, walkarounds, check the stupid cargo door EVERY SINGLE TIME, Pax: greet 'em, seat 'em, brief 'em, lead 'em out REPEAT to INFINITY, Close door... fly and no autopilot.
Mesaba Saab FO (I wasn't one but I watched) - did the W+B, did FFOD (captain did rest)
Mesaba CRJ 900 FO- Finger bang FMS, FFOD (captain did the rest), crossed some belts because I was bored
Pinnacle CRJ 200 FO- Do the FFOD, all the walkarounds, finger bang FMS

As you can see, companies matter but equipment matters more. Turboprop guys are the hardest working.
 
I scooby doo'd on the ice on the ramp at SYR one morning and could barely sit for a week. Other than that I don't remember the Saab workload being too bad. Nothing like per trip, pax brief, w&b, position reports, fly the plane and narrate the tour when I flew the ditch.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
 
Seggy said:
For example, when I first broke into the industry I wasn't a rabid unionist (I was actually a Republican), but seeing things the first year I was at Colgan QUICKLY changed my view on the world.
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So what you're saying is that you are a Sith? Your journey to the Dark Side is now complete. Darth Seggy...that just doesn't have a menacing ring to it.


The simple fact is that most of the people in this thread don't have a dog in this fight. What many do have is experience in similar situations. I've worked for two wholely-owned regionals. The first was awesome, but in the end it sucked...because it did end. It ceased flight ops to become a ground service company. The other one is the topic of this thread.

The flow-through carrot is huge, but so is the stick that comes with it. I want to tell you about what I've seen of the stick. It's my opinion and not a reading of the tea leaves. First when times are tough for recruiting, like trying to comply with the new 1500 hr rule, if the regional needs bodies, they will hold onto what they have. That regional captain who was promised a seat in the big plane can get stuck. If there is a mainline seniority number with pay protection (neither had that), that does change things. But is that a reality? Also, when that captain moves on, that generates 3 training events, 1 at mainline and 2 at the regional (1ea CA and FO) and the regional loses 2 from the line (CA leaving and FO upgrading). No so if somebody is brought in from the outside.

The second part to the big stick is that the w/o is the "shock absorber" for flying hours. When flying gets reduced, and the FFD carriers are at the contractual mins, the w/o flying hours get cut waaay down. There are no contractual mins.

This isn't really about the stick, but just general musings. Both companies are/were line item expenses for the parent company that brought people into the mainline hubs and into the network. Somebody was discussing Pinnacle and BK as a way to get new contracts. At these w/o that cannot happen unless the mainline is in BK. This is the case for AA, but not for Airways or the new company.
 
Derg said:
...and get off your lazy ass and walk to Pottery Barn? :)
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The approved rejoinder is "ride a cowboy."

jynxyjoe said:
I'd rather screw (prop) my way across the country than blow (turbofan).

Colgan 1900 FO - worked my ass off, open door, walk arounds, FFOD's, walkarounds, check the stupid cargo door EVERY SINGLE TIME, Pax: greet 'em, seat 'em, brief 'em, lead 'em out REPEAT to INFINITY, Close door... fly and no autopilot.
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Yeah, Brasilia life isn't bad by comparison:
- walkaround, bang on fuel doors every single time, ruin shirts regularly
- FFOD taxi check
- follow along on the manual manifest
- type type type on the FMS/AFIS
 
jhugz said:
Don't worry Tallflyer, since Seggy is 5-10 years ahead of you in the industry you get to hear this same broken record for the rest of your existence here on JC. When you're a senior FO, it's STFD, you can talk when you make CA. When you make CA, it's STFD, you can talk when you're flying for a LCC. When you're at a LCC, it's STFD, you can talk when you make mainline FO. Enjoy and welcome to JC.
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Maybe you should look in the mirror for the problem , Seggy is a few years ahead of me and has never talked down to me. Just like I am a few years ahead of Autothrust Blue but have no problem asking him for advice.
 
desertdog71 said:
I scooby doo'd on the ice on the ramp at SYR one morning and could barely sit for a week. Other than that I don't remember the Saab workload being too bad. Nothing like per trip, pax brief, w&b, position reports, fly the plane and narrate the tour when I flew the ditch.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
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Non-skid soles are awesome things, but they don't do diddly when the ramp's covered in half-frozen glycol and other yuck.
 
TexasFlyer said:
Thanks BobDDuck. I learned my lesson after asking that question. I won't be asking anymore questions in regard to Regionals on here. Will just learn things on my own for now and then find a good real life mentor once on the line. If anything, this should be an interesting ride and learning experience.
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There is a ton of good info on here and questions should be asked by all. But as a newbie to the 121 world posting something about rumors before you show up to class is the type of questions that should be asked later.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
Non-skid soles are awesome things, but they don't do diddly when the ramp's covered in half-frozen glycol and other yuck.
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I was standing there by the belt loaded one second. The next second I was looking at the sky. It hurt like a SOB.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
 
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