PSA Rumor
- Thread starter TexasFlyer
- Start date
jhugz
Well-Known Member
SOP, just to remind us that we can handfly airplanes, unlike our airline brethren.
Don't you have a visual approach in CAVU to go practice, or possibly recovering from a stall, or verifying your HSI on takeoff? I feel like you should be working on something...
jynxyjoe
Queso King
I don't know what any of that quoted means, but please feel free to carry on without me.
Something something something... flaps up takeoff inverted something something first intersection.
We've been "might be getting more widebody aircraft" for the last five years.
Even official word has come down that we "might" be looking at picking up some more.
So we ask, "Great! Where are they?" every year for the past few years.
The unofficial answer has always been "Well, we don't want to say because we're still trying to play Boeing against Airbus"
Really.
Very effective at keeping the natives from getting too restless and willing to sign anything you put in front of them.
Even official word has come down that we "might" be looking at picking up some more.
So we ask, "Great! Where are they?" every year for the past few years.
The unofficial answer has always been "Well, we don't want to say because we're still trying to play Boeing against Airbus"
Really.
Very effective at keeping the natives from getting too restless and willing to sign anything you put in front of them.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
It never fails to stun me that we fall for this stuff, over and over and over again. I mean, pilots aren't (in the main) stupid people. Not always highly educated, but you don't make it through those first few yobs (not to mention those first few thunderstorms) by being an idiot. Yet it's the same story, again and again. I'll gladly pay you on Thursday for a Wimpy-Burger today! Honestly, we're our own worst enemies.
This is the DALPA forum:
1. "I hate this TA!"
then...
2. "Sadly, I changed my vote to yes, and this is why... it's about (something selfish, overly fearful or overly optimistic)"
then...
3. "This contract BLOWS!"
Rinse. Repeat.
Maybe I'm just trying to be the eternal optimist here, but a change IS coming.
I for one would be very pleased to see every regional in the US put their foot down and vote down any forthcoming concessionary contract, but at the same time it does appear that Delta has truly boxed their regional partners into a corner with the whole Pinnacle situation. Does it necessarily follow that both United and the soon to be new American must follow? Well, that's what management certainly wants us to believe. I'll admit that I don't have enough information to make an informed opinion.
Couple that reality with the supposed staffing problems (training pipeline, etc) that the regionals are having, and it becomes really obvious that downward pressures on regional pay are really not in mainline's best interest if they want to be ale to move someone from Podunk, SC to anywhere west of the Mississippi. Translation: if they want to be able to sell that itinerary they've got to have the bodies to staff the airplanes that gets said traveller to CLT, ATL, or perhaps CLE or IAH so they can get on mainline metal.
From my perspective, it would behoove Mainline to give their regionals a really big bone, i.e. a meaningful flow. If someone goes to a regional knowing he can upgrade in 3-4 years, spend the same amount of time in the left seat, then move on, pretty much guaranteed, you provide a really big incentive to get people to go get hired at a regional.
The downside for pilots is that mainline will no doubt use the promise of a flow to hammer on pay and work rules. Where's the line? It's going to be different for everyone.
I for one would be very pleased to see every regional in the US put their foot down and vote down any forthcoming concessionary contract, but at the same time it does appear that Delta has truly boxed their regional partners into a corner with the whole Pinnacle situation. Does it necessarily follow that both United and the soon to be new American must follow? Well, that's what management certainly wants us to believe. I'll admit that I don't have enough information to make an informed opinion.
Couple that reality with the supposed staffing problems (training pipeline, etc) that the regionals are having, and it becomes really obvious that downward pressures on regional pay are really not in mainline's best interest if they want to be ale to move someone from Podunk, SC to anywhere west of the Mississippi. Translation: if they want to be able to sell that itinerary they've got to have the bodies to staff the airplanes that gets said traveller to CLT, ATL, or perhaps CLE or IAH so they can get on mainline metal.
From my perspective, it would behoove Mainline to give their regionals a really big bone, i.e. a meaningful flow. If someone goes to a regional knowing he can upgrade in 3-4 years, spend the same amount of time in the left seat, then move on, pretty much guaranteed, you provide a really big incentive to get people to go get hired at a regional.
The downside for pilots is that mainline will no doubt use the promise of a flow to hammer on pay and work rules. Where's the line? It's going to be different for everyone.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
Every time you "negotiate" for flow rather than improved pay, benefits, and QOL RIGHT NOW, God kills a kitten. An adorable little innocent kitten.
When was the last time "flow" actually worked in the interests of those who voted for it? When was the FIRST time?
I swear to God it's like Charlie Brown and the football.
When was the last time "flow" actually worked in the interests of those who voted for it? When was the FIRST time?
I swear to God it's like Charlie Brown and the football.
Seems like there's 550-ish Compass and Mesaba pilots for whom it's going to work out for. Sure, Age 65 and "The Great Recession" have prolonged that a bit, but who's to say that that paradigm can't be repeated?
As for negotiating, my position is negotiations don't even start until mainline puts strong flow language on the table.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
TallFlyer said:
Nah, not at all. A bunch of folks talking about BS airline rumors before they have their first V1 cut in the sim is hysterical.
People also have a vast misunderstanding and not stating what the facts are on Bankruptcy law here and what Delta is doing to reset the regional industry contracts.
scooter2525
Very well Member
I don't get the appeal about flow. Mainline is hiring either way, so like Boris said, wouldn't pay qol etc be better for the time being until your number comes up?
crazyjaydawg
Well-Known Member
It's less than 400 and the cpz pilots never negotiated for it. NWA pilots made the contract and all the negotiations expecting Compass to become a quasi b-scale in bankruptcy.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
I seem to remember back in the mists of time an absolutely royal screwing of the entire Beagle pilot group. And, IMS, Continental Express (when there was such a thing) got bent over pretty good too. I can't be arsed to find citations, as I'm not an airline pilot. But I remember very distinctly back when I was planning my career (haha! Announcing your intentions is a good way to hear God laugh) and thinking "aha! I've figured it out, I need to go where there's flow!"
As best I can tell, everyone who was where I wanted at the time to be is swinging gear at GoJet at age 45.
Flow is, by its very nature, Pie in the Sky By and By. It's a promise from people who deeply, fundamentally believe that keeping promises is a sign of weakness.
ALERT: NSFW!
< SteveC says NSFW no bueno in General Topics, REDACTED! >
Great, why don't you educate then.
There are plenty of regional Captains with all the right credentials with their apps in who are still in the left seat of an RJ. Sure, you're going to apply to everyone when the time comes but an ace in the hole is never a bad thing.
My WAG total was including the 100+ Mesaba guys who will also flow. Not sure I follow about Compass (I really don't know the history) but the fact is the pilots are going somewhere other than Compass as Delta starts to hire.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
Fair enough. Still. I think we can all agree with "SCREW YOU, PAY ME".
Bumblebee
Commodore
this post would have been more helpful right below the original...then it could have been more educational from the start.
desertdog71
Girthy Member
A bunch = 1
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Look I'm going to say some things here that you will probably take offense to, but you asked for an education I'll give it. You aren't the only one on this thread doing this btw.
As one who is just entering the 121 side of things, you and others are to green to really know anything. You shouldn't be pontificating like you did in post 28, because honestly, you don't know much from the 121 side of things. As you know you are on probation, so while on probation it is just best to sit back and observe how things really work to develop opinions from actually living it. For example, when I first broke into the industry I wasn't a rabid unionist (I was actually a Republican), but seeing things the first year I was at Colgan QUICKLY changed my view on the world. If that sort of change can occur with me the first year in the industry, it can happen to anyone if they sit back and open their ears instead of their mouths.
Same thing when you change airlines, you sit back, shut up and observe.
You and others are to green to the industry and to your respective airlines to not know what you don't know.