PSA New Hire FO Classes Suspended

chrisreedrules said:
Every guy from my January class that came from Endeavor is now either in CA upgrade class or will be in the next month. I'd say the decision to come to PSA is working out well for them.
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Honest question for you: So they upgrade....now what do they do with that PIC time? Cash it in for canned food? Because if you or anybody else is still under the impression that X amount of PIC time will magically get you a mainline job you are all in for a rude awakening. Add up all the Regional Captains. Now add up 90% of all LCC pilots (both Captains and FOs). Now throw in a good helping of Corporate pilots with PIC and pilots flying overseas.....

What good does having PIC time do for you when 10,000+ other pilots have it as well? And that's not even mentioning military pilots who we all know get first dibs. I'm just saying....think about it. I know the old mentality has people chasing quick upgrades because they think it will land them a job with the big 3. It just doesn't work that way at all. PIC time and $2 will buy you a cup of coffee these days. Unless you are on the friends & family plan you will spin your wheels in place for years before finally getting frustrated and moving over to an LCC. Which is fine, don't get me wrong. It's a step up from any Regional...but let's be honest...if you could choose between any LCC and AA, Delta, or United which one would you choose?

Now, queue a bunch of people giving examples of exceptions and trying to pass it off as the rule. Queue all the selective examples of "a guy I know" who was hired by X mainline airline from the Regionals. Yeah, there are always exceptions to the rule. And there are usually exceptional circumstances attached to those stories that we may or may not ever know about.
 
Skyvector said:
Honest question for you: So they upgrade....now what do they do with that PIC time? Cash it in for canned food? Because if you or anybody else is still under the impression that X amount of PIC time will magically get you a mainline job you are all in for a rude awakening. Add up all the Regional Captains. Now add up 90% of all LCC pilots (both Captains and FOs). Now throw in a good helping of Corporate pilots with PIC and pilots flying overseas.....

What good does having PIC time do for you when 10,000+ other pilots have it as well? And that's not even mentioning military pilots who we all know get first dibs. I'm just saying....think about it. I know the old mentality has people chasing quick upgrades because they think it will land them a job with the big 3. It just doesn't work that way at all. PIC time and $2 will buy you a cup of coffee these days. Unless you are on the friends & family plan you will spin your wheels in place for years before finally getting frustrated and moving over to an LCC. Which is fine, don't get me wrong. It's a step up from any Regional...but let's be honest...if you could choose between any LCC and AA, Delta, or United which one would you choose?

Now, queue a bunch of people giving examples of exceptions and trying to pass it off as the rule. Queue all the selective examples of "a guy I know" who was hired by X mainline airline from the Regionals. Yeah, there are always exceptions to the rule. And there are usually exceptional circumstances attached to those stories that we may or may not ever know about.
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Most pilots know this already. They certainly will have a better shot than those without PIC plus the pay is significantly better. Seems like a good reason to me.
 
Skyvector said:
Honest question for you: So they upgrade....now what do they do with that PIC time? Cash it in for canned food? Because if you or anybody else is still under the impression that X amount of PIC time will magically get you a mainline job you are all in for a rude awakening. Add up all the Regional Captains. Now add up 90% of all LCC pilots (both Captains and FOs). Now throw in a good helping of Corporate pilots with PIC and pilots flying overseas.....

What good does having PIC time do for you when 10,000+ other pilots have it as well? And that's not even mentioning military pilots who we all know get first dibs. I'm just saying....think about it. I know the old mentality has people chasing quick upgrades because they think it will land them a job with the big 3. It just doesn't work that way at all. PIC time and $2 will buy you a cup of coffee these days. Unless you are on the friends & family plan you will spin your wheels in place for years before finally getting frustrated and moving over to an LCC. Which is fine, don't get me wrong. It's a step up from any Regional...but let's be honest...if you could choose between any LCC and AA, Delta, or United which one would you choose?

Now, queue a bunch of people giving examples of exceptions and trying to pass it off as the rule. Queue all the selective examples of "a guy I know" who was hired by X mainline airline from the Regionals. Yeah, there are always exceptions to the rule. And there are usually exceptional circumstances attached to those stories that we may or may not ever know about.
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#1 reason for most I've heard is pay.

#2 is because PIC time does still matter. I know a couple of regional FOs that have interviewed at mainline. Both were told, "you need more TPIC". And these were within the past couple years.

#3 is also because not everyone is looking to go to a U.S. Legacy carrier. Many regional pilots want to get their 1000 TPIC, go somewhere else (anywhere other than a regional really), and get through that part of their career.

# TPIC opens doors and helps to "check boxes" for landing interviews, etc...
 
chrisreedrules said:
Every guy from my January class that came from Endeavor is now either in CA upgrade class or will be in the next month. I'd say the decision to come to PSA is working out well for them.
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Yeah, i have no disagreement.Some did better at Endeavorand the ones that left did even better. It's win win for the pilots. (Tough on management, but they can eat it from the other side as far as I'm concerned)
 
7700 said:
What's the wait time for someone like a Street Captain to hold CLT and not be stuck in TYS/DAY?
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Honestly, no one knows. It would be a guess.

There are quite a few FO's that are eligible for upgrade that are waiting for personal reasons (want to be a line holder before they upgrade, vacations, waiting until after summer, etc...) plus there are quite a few people in new hire training that are prior 121 and will upgrade as soon as they finish sims and differences.

There really is no telling where all of these people will want to go, and when they decide to upgrade. There are also all of the FO's that will hit 1000 hours SIC in the few months it will take for PSA to hire the DEC's, train them, and get them to the line.

There will also be a new base being announced in the next several months (no one knows where), and that may change the dynamics. If the new base is easier to commute to, and the lines are good, that could become the hot new base.
 
tbstanto said:
Honestly, no one knows. It would be a guess.

There are quite a few FO's that are eligible for upgrade that are waiting for personal reasons (want to be a line holder before they upgrade, vacations, waiting until after summer, etc...) plus there are quite a few people in new hire training that are prior 121 and will upgrade as soon as they finish sims and differences.

There really is no telling where all of these people will want to go, and when they decide to upgrade. There are also all of the FO's that will hit 1000 hours SIC in the few months it will take for PSA to hire the DEC's, train them, and get them to the line.

There will also be a new base being announced in the next several months (no one knows where), and that may change the dynamics. If the new base is easier to commute to, and the lines are good, that could become the hot new base.
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That and as far as I know none of the DEC interview candidates have heard even a word after their interviews. My group was told 1-2 weeks about 2.5 weeks ago.
 
I do wish you guys luck, but the DEC is creating a sticky situation. The union is against it, as it is not allowed by their interpretation of the contract. There are also many pilots on property that are against it. The company is hiring outside DEC's rather than fixing the problem that created the need in the first place.

The captain shortage is completely self inflicted, and there are enough FO's that are eligible to upgrade to fill all of the needed positions, but the constant disregard for our contract and the poor quality of life while on reserve keeps people from wanting to give up their relatively decent QOL that they have as senior FO's.
 
Skyvector said:
Honest question for you: So they upgrade....now what do they do with that PIC time? Cash it in for canned food? Because if you or anybody else is still under the impression that X amount of PIC time will magically get you a mainline job you are all in for a rude awakening. Add up all the Regional Captains. Now add up 90% of all LCC pilots (both Captains and FOs). Now throw in a good helping of Corporate pilots with PIC and pilots flying overseas.....

What good does having PIC time do for you when 10,000+ other pilots have it as well? And that's not even mentioning military pilots who we all know get first dibs. I'm just saying....think about it. I know the old mentality has people chasing quick upgrades because they think it will land them a job with the big 3. It just doesn't work that way at all. PIC time and $2 will buy you a cup of coffee these days. Unless you are on the friends & family plan you will spin your wheels in place for years before finally getting frustrated and moving over to an LCC. Which is fine, don't get me wrong. It's a step up from any Regional...but let's be honest...if you could choose between any LCC and AA, Delta, or United which one would you choose?

Now, queue a bunch of people giving examples of exceptions and trying to pass it off as the rule. Queue all the selective examples of "a guy I know" who was hired by X mainline airline from the Regionals. Yeah, there are always exceptions to the rule. And there are usually exceptional circumstances attached to those stories that we may or may not ever know about.
Click to expand...

It's another check in the box to make you competitive. I have apps in with every Legacy carrier. I have excellent connections at one of them, and a couple of connections at the other two. I also have many other things in my background that should make me competitive, like education, volunteering, LORs from CPs, LCAs, etc. However, I've yet to hear a word from anybody. I am now upgrading, and while it doesn't mean I will instantly get a phone call, it will of course make me more competitive. Those that say 121 PIC doesn't matter anymore aren't paying attention.

Finally, I very much disagree that any LCC is better than any regional. Now that I'm upgrading, there's no way in hell I'd leave where I'm at for Allegiant or Frontier. Spirit/JB/VA are probably a different story.
 
don't know anything about the PSA interview process but is it usually a you will hear something in a week or two instead of instant yes/no?
 
GypsyPilot said:
It's another check in the box to make you competitive. I have apps in with every Legacy carrier. I have excellent connections at one of them, and a couple of connections at the other two. I also have many other things in my background that should make me competitive, like education, volunteering, LORs from CPs, LCAs, etc. However, I've yet to hear a word from anybody. I am now upgrading, and while it doesn't mean I will instantly get a phone call, it will of course make me more competitive. Those that say 121 PIC doesn't matter anymore aren't paying attention.

Finally, I very much disagree that any LCC is better than any regional. Now that I'm upgrading, there's no way in hell I'd leave where I'm at for Allegiant or Frontier. Spirit/JB/VA are probably a different story.
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to each his own, i'd personally take FO at a LCC/ULCC over CA at a regional. At least they own their own flying so some of the uncertainty is gone.
 
tbstanto said:
I do wish you guys luck, but the DEC is creating a sticky situation. The union is against it, as it is not allowed by their interpretation of the contract. There are also many pilots on property that are against it. The company is hiring outside DEC's rather than fixing the problem that created the need in the first place.

The captain shortage is completely self inflicted, and there are enough FO's that are eligible to upgrade to fill all of the needed positions, but the constant disregard for our contract and the poor quality of life while on reserve keeps people from wanting to give up their relatively decent QOL that they have as senior FO's.
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Understandable. That said, the upgrades are available and they're choosing not to take them.

As I understand it the union is tying the ability for the company to hire DEC pilots to the negotiations for better terms in the SSP program. If they're smart they'd include better language for contract compliance in the negotiations.

The company not complying with the contract is one thing, but reserve sucks at every regional. If it's that bad, they should have addressed that when it was time to vote on the contract.
 
ian said:
to each his own, i'd personally take FO at a LCC/ULCC over CA at a regional. At least they own their own flying so some of the uncertainty is gone.
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Yep. That's your opinion. F9 would have been a big payout for me as a SKW FO, and a huge paycut as a 5 year SKW CA. They also have a lot of uncertainty, as does Allegiant. Honestly, Allegiant wasn't even remotely a consideration for me, even as a FO. What a mess that place is turning out to be.

So yeah, I'm 100% satisfied with my decision to be a SKW CA and work towards a Legacy FO position.
 
GypsyPilot said:
Yep. That's your opinion. F9 would have been a big payout for me as a SKW FO, and a huge paycut as a 5 year SKW CA. They also have a lot of uncertainty, as does Allegiant. Honestly, Allegiant wasn't even remotely a consideration for me, even as a FO. What a mess that place is turning out to be.

So yeah, I'm 100% satisfied with my decision to be a SKW CA and work towards a Legacy FO position.
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I've heard rumors that on the surejet side we've had some people take advantage of our employment leave to go to Allegiant only to nope the hell out and come right back.

Can't really prove that, just what I've heard.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
I've heard rumors that on the surejet side we've had some people take advantage of our employment leave to go to Allegiant only to nope the hell out and come right back.

Can't really prove that, just what I've heard.
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Not a rumor. Guy from my new hire class tried to pull something. It didn't end well for him...
 
Screaming_Emu said:
I've heard rumors that on the surejet side we've had some people take advantage of our employment leave to go to Allegiant only to nope the hell out and come right back.

Can't really prove that, just what I've heard.
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It wouldn't surprise me. I think it's possibly an acceptable option for guys looking to move on from Ameriflight and that sort of thing... But otherwise I just don't know why anybody would do it, particularly now. Can you imagine the toxic work environment over there?

Frontier is a different animal (ha!) obviously. I did try to get on there last summer when I was a FO, and I think it would've been a good move for me despite the initial paycut. But they didn't hire me, which in hindsight was probably good for my professional development. I'm really looking forward to the new challenge of being a 121 captain, and whether or not it helps me get hired anywhere, I think it will make me a FAR better pilot than if I was swinging gear in the right seat of an airbus.
 
tbstanto said:
I do wish you guys luck, but the DEC is creating a sticky situation. The union is against it, as it is not allowed by their interpretation of the contract. There are also many pilots on property that are against it. The company is hiring outside DEC's rather than fixing the problem that created the need in the first place.

The captain shortage is completely self inflicted, and there are enough FO's that are eligible to upgrade to fill all of the needed positions, but the constant disregard for our contract and the poor quality of life while on reserve keeps people from wanting to give up their relatively decent QOL that they have as senior FO's.
Click to expand...

Reserve here has been much better than at XJT (ERJ side which had better reserve rules than the CRJ side). You usually know a couple days ahead of time if what your trip is and they can't give you a fourth consecutive overnight unless you allow them to. I have a two hour drive for a one hour call out and it hasn't been bad at all. I have broken guarantee the last two months and had some days where I haven't been used, I'll take it over the 0300 callout in EWR that I did years ago. Reserve does suck everywhere but suprisingly less sucky at PSA than from what I experienced at SureJet. You can actually move reserve days around here which has given me some nice schedules.
 
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