PSA CRJ-700 AA midair collision

Lawman said:
No, the holds available in each aircraft type and series vary in ability though.

The other issue is the standardization for their use is SOP dependent. From a previous organization “overwater” operations under NVG required use of the ALT-I or RALT hold and had requirements for precisely what altitude the warnings had to be set at. My current organization has no such standards in the SOP because we don’t do overwater as a regular mission set.

I’m not familiar enough with the path they were on to say whether a specific hold mode wouldn’t cause problems (RALT with multiple return hights as you cross over bridges for example). But I know the intelligent altitude hold mode in the 47 was a godsend for a kind of set it and forget it cruise control capability at holding low altitudes. The 64 however, yeah the hold mode kind of sucks in general but especially at low level so it’s almost entirely manual <200-300 AGL.


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Nice info. Thanks for the insights.
 
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A little levity: This still remains one of my favorite ways to describe an aerodrome or heliport.
 
Pilot Fighter said:
With regards to 33 traffic, what’s normal, what’s routine? Does ATC usually deconflict approach traffic without asking anything of helicopter traffic? This would explain a lot if that’s the case.
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Yes they do! This case new controller. Long time controllers would have been a lot more assertive with the helicopter crew, either 360 or hold at Hains, especially given the fact 1 was clear of helicopter traffic North of HP.
 
flyingpotato said:
Yes they do! This case new controller. Long time controllers would have been a lot more assertive with the helicopter crew, either 360 or hold at Hains, especially given the fact 1 was clear of helicopter traffic North of HP.
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I don't know if this is true. He asked twice if the traffic was in sight and twice he was told it was and visual separation would be maintained. I have personally had situations where I had a feeling the report was erroneous and took action anyway, but I am usually going to trust the pilot unless they have given me a reason not to.
 
flyingpotato said:
Yes they do! This case new controller. Long time controllers would have been a lot more assertive with the helicopter crew, either 360 or hold at Hains, especially given the fact 1 was clear of helicopter traffic North of HP.
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I believe something akin to this was the controller’s next move, had the helicopter not called the traffic in sight and not accepted visual separation. The fact the helo did call traffic in sight (correct or incorrect traffic), that tower confirmed it again, and they requested and accepted a visual separation assignment, was satisfactory to the controller, as this has likely occurred any number of times before and had worked fine, with helicopters that had the correct traffic in sight.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
The controller should have mentioned at least something to the CR7 as well. Could have been that one thing needed break the accident chain.
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The CRJ was maybe 45 seconds or so from landing, and the controller likely didn’t want to bother a crew whose attention is on everything having to do with maneuvering on short final. Especially regarding traffic that is supposedly maintaining clearance from them and that they can’t see anyway. This will only be known from the interview of the controller; so my contention here is only a reasonable idea of why that would not have likely been done.
 
MikeD said:
The CRJ was maybe 45 seconds or so from landing, and the controller likely didn’t want to bother a crew whose attention is on everything having to do with maneuvering on short final. Especially regarding traffic that is supposedly maintaining clearance from them. This will only be known from the interview of the controller; so my contention here is only a reasonable idea of why that would not have likely been done.
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I’ve gotten traffic calls less than 45 seconds to landing, especially SFO and LAX. I’m always appreciative of it. If it’s close enough it can actually hit me, I’d like to know.




Would also be interesting to see if there was any discussion in the CR7 after the traffic, traffic aural TA.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Would also be interesting to see if there was any discussion in the CR7 after the traffic, traffic aural TA.
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I’m curious too. Though I would suspect, just from my own experience, that it’s possible that convo may have been something akin to “that’s just that helo that tower was talking to that is maintaining separation from us”, and attention gone back to landing. As the crew possibly couldnt see the helo anyway, and weren’t likely going to maneuver to get it in sight while lining up. All the above of which would be reasonable things, if they turn out to be fact.
 
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