Juliet Lima
New Member
I could care less if you don't respond to the altimeter. Now, a clearance, heading, altitude, speed, hold short, etc I expect a read back.
Proper Response to ATC
- Thread starter Zero1Niner
- Start date
gatorbuc99
Well-Known Member
I concur, a quick "roger" or "niner seven" for 29.97 will do, usually the latter for me, just sticks in ya head a lil more. Besides, chances are you'll here the altimeter setting again over and over again when given to other a/c on the freq
A readback without a callsign can be really dangerous, and it happens all the time. You'd also be surprised to hear how much alot of the big guys substitute "roger" for "wilco", surely they know better...
A readback without a callsign can be really dangerous, and it happens all the time. You'd also be surprised to hear how much alot of the big guys substitute "roger" for "wilco", surely they know better...
BoomerSooner77
New Member
Just a "You betcha!" will do if you're in Alaska.
gatorbuc99
Well-Known Member
lol, do you say "dogone it!" after the tower asks you to go around?
SIUav8er
Narcosis
I've never heard anyone responding to that, it's the information that pilot can obtain from atis anyway. I'm not sure if controllers are even required to say that or they are just being nice and helpful
I verify altimeter setings with a readback. I assume the reason controllers give the setting in their sector is so that everyone is on the same setting so that vertical separation can be maintained. The amount of arguing going on over this trivial subject is pure comedy by the way...lol
LawnGnome
Well-Known Member
It is now required to have pilots read back all altitude assignments, just like they are required to read back hold short instructions. The FAA made an interim change, but it should be in all the pubs by the next update...I'll try and track down the official document number for you at work tomorrow.
Alpha Lima
New Member
Found it on Google
HTML
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=html&cd=2&url=http%3A%2F%2F74.125.95.104%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dcache%3ASzdpMiMa0rcJ%3Awww.faa.gov%2Fairports_airtraffic%2Fair_traffic%2Fpublications%2Fat_notices%2Fmedia%2FN7110.484.pdf%2Bfaa%2Baltitude%2Breadback%26hl%3Den%26ct%3Dclnk%26cd%3D2%26gl%3Dus&ei=2xb8SOOzCIjKNPj1-BQ&usg=AFQjCNENR2tQ7IN1n_xCr3047SNlUX5GnA&sig2=TtZnFLATnmIoew0pryypbg
PDF
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour..._Uce4MEn7EfrTN_-g&sig2=xkPsPZ6MeH1GdoYX6z_jIg
However it seems silly with the note
NOTE- Failure to adhere to the additional requirements in this phraseology demonstration will not constitute an operational error if the other current provisions of 2-4-3 a and b are properly applied. However, these additional requirements are expected to improve operational performance. Failure to properly apply them should be addressed in accordance with applicable orders, policies, and agreements.
So they are saying hey guys we think this is a good idea, but not totally required.
HTML
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=html&cd=2&url=http%3A%2F%2F74.125.95.104%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dcache%3ASzdpMiMa0rcJ%3Awww.faa.gov%2Fairports_airtraffic%2Fair_traffic%2Fpublications%2Fat_notices%2Fmedia%2FN7110.484.pdf%2Bfaa%2Baltitude%2Breadback%26hl%3Den%26ct%3Dclnk%26cd%3D2%26gl%3Dus&ei=2xb8SOOzCIjKNPj1-BQ&usg=AFQjCNENR2tQ7IN1n_xCr3047SNlUX5GnA&sig2=TtZnFLATnmIoew0pryypbg
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour..._Uce4MEn7EfrTN_-g&sig2=xkPsPZ6MeH1GdoYX6z_jIg
However it seems silly with the note
NOTE- Failure to adhere to the additional requirements in this phraseology demonstration will not constitute an operational error if the other current provisions of 2-4-3 a and b are properly applied. However, these additional requirements are expected to improve operational performance. Failure to properly apply them should be addressed in accordance with applicable orders, policies, and agreements.
So they are saying hey guys we think this is a good idea, but not totally required.
blee256
Well-Known Member
Taylor , your on the $ 99.9% of the time. While training students in VFR weather , its appropriate to teach the FAR/AIM phraseology , but in the real world , doing approaches , in busy airports down to minimums with tired pilots ,when the controllers are busy , we just click the mic. Now if its headings , altitudes etc , now thats different. You have to be able to distinguish between the two...................
Who is we? I have never just clicked a mic to acknowledge a transmission. (well maybe back when i was training in 172, and i thought it was cool. haha)
However, what I do isnt a whole lot better. When i check in with a new controller, and all they have to tell me is the new altimeter setting, i normally just repeat the last 2 numbers.
my response would have just been "nine four"
LawnGnome
Well-Known Member
Found it on Google
HTML
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=html&cd=2&url=http%3A%2F%2F74.125.95.104%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dcache%3ASzdpMiMa0rcJ%3Awww.faa.gov%2Fairports_airtraffic%2Fair_traffic%2Fpublications%2Fat_notices%2Fmedia%2FN7110.484.pdf%2Bfaa%2Baltitude%2Breadback%26hl%3Den%26ct%3Dclnk%26cd%3D2%26gl%3Dus&ei=2xb8SOOzCIjKNPj1-BQ&usg=AFQjCNENR2tQ7IN1n_xCr3047SNlUX5GnA&sig2=TtZnFLATnmIoew0pryypbg
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour..._Uce4MEn7EfrTN_-g&sig2=xkPsPZ6MeH1GdoYX6z_jIg
However it seems silly with the note
NOTE- Failure to adhere to the additional requirements in this phraseology demonstration will not constitute an operational error if the other current provisions of 2-4-3 a and b are properly applied. However, these additional requirements are expected to improve operational performance. Failure to properly apply them should be addressed in accordance with applicable orders, policies, and agreements.
So they are saying hey guys we think this is a good idea, but not totally required.
Here is the FAA Memorandum concerning the issue:
Date: Sept 15 2008
To: Distribution
From: Raul C. Trevino, Director, Terminal Safety and Operations Support
Prepared By: Vincent V. Shobe, Terminal Operations and Procedures
Subject: Adcknowledgement of Altitude Clearance and Altitude Read Back, on Automatic Terminal Information System (ATIS)
ATO-S has determined that missed pilot read backs have contributed to operational errors in the National Airspace System (NAS). On September 23, 2008, Notice JO 7110.489, Acknowledgement of Altitude Clearances and Altitude Read Back will become effective. This Notice will require operational personanel to ensure that pilots read back their assigned altitude.
For the duration of this Notice, the requirement for pilots to read back their assigned altitude must be broadcast on the ATIS.
Examples of phraesology ATIS:
"All aircraft read back all assigned altitudes"
"All aircraft read back all hold short instructions and assigned altitudes"
If the pilot states the correct assigned altitude during required transmissions, that pilot statement will fulfill the requirement for assigned altitude verification.
If you have any questions of desire further information, please contact Vincent Shobe, Terminal Operations and Procedures, at (202) 385-8938.
Before all this, controllers needed to only here an acknowledgement from the pilot stating that he had his clearance....now at the very minimum, they need the altitude readback...so a proper and quick response from a pilot could be...."N1234 copy all or roger, maintain 5 thousand." However for clarity, the controller always has the right to make a pilot read back the entire clearance....especially if the controller thinks the pilot is shady at best.
Hope that helps clarify the issue.
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
My impression is that most operation deviatons under IFR are altitude-related. The read-back requirement may be an attempt to avoid those that are based on not really hearing it.
Matt777
Well-Known Member
Really? So I don't have to read back, " Maintain 2,200 until established" when it is part of my approach clearance?" Is there a reference?
Juliet Lima
New Member
u absolutely DO NOT need to read back your altitude assignment in your approach clearance. isn't a bad idea though.
i'll find a reference real quick. hold on.
plus if i have to hear u say "maintain 2,200 until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 13R approach" one more time. :rotfl:
Go Seahawks
Juliet Lima
New Member
Lawngnome's response 3 post above is the exact thing i was looking for. it was a notice from the FAA for controllers. it told us our NEW responsibility to police altitude readbacks in the clearance delivery position.
have patience pilots...we are required to ask u for it.
and yes, it also states the exemption for approach clearances, because of the excessive phraseology that accompanies an approach clearance.
have patience pilots...we are required to ask u for it.
and yes, it also states the exemption for approach clearances, because of the excessive phraseology that accompanies an approach clearance.
Matt777
Well-Known Member
Hahaha!!!
Have you actually heard me or are you just putting the pieces together (2,200' and seattle = KBFI ILS 13R)
Yeah you haven't heard me cuz I do leave out the " on the localizer" and " runway" and "approach".
Like this: " maintain 2,200 until established, cleared ILS 13R"!
Hey, how about this? " 2,200, cleared ILS 13R "
Wow that's gonna make it much easier!!!
Juliet Lima
New Member
just put it together.
i like it!
i AM a big time Seahawks fan though on the real.
BrewMaster
Well-Known Member
The reason they say it is for some kind of response. They obviously heard you, but did you hear them? That is the reason. A long "29.99 for N12345" probably isn't necessary, but a quick "two triple niner for three four five" will work unless that is too much of a tongue twister, then some grunts, moans and/or clicks will probably suffice. The whole frequency congestion thing doesn't make sense....it takes one second to respond.
Just be polite and respond, that is when you have truly communicated.
Just be polite and respond, that is when you have truly communicated.
///AMG
Well-Known Member
In addition to the VACATERS calls, I like to read back altimeter if for no other reason to eliminate any possibility that I heard it incorrectly. Right or wrong I usually omit my callsign when I do this if the freq is congested just saying "Altimeter xx.xx". My understanding about in flight squawk assignments was that you didn't need to read-back, but that you did need to acknowledge "radar contact" when they roger up again. I too have heard clearance delivery request a read-back for an initial clearance, and although it is not technically required (unless by company SOP or whatever) it seems like good form if they want it.
