Procedural question

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

[Line Check AIrman Cap]
Program the clearance, plan on clarifying the runway change with the appropriate facility and plan on changing the arrival and runway
[/Line Check Airman Cap]

Ah come on. Can’t I just change it with while you’re sleeping?

 

[Autothrust Blue]

As a lost communications aside, FAA Order 7110.65Z, 10-4-4, Note (1):

When an IFR aircraft experiences two-way radio communications failure, air traffic control is basd on anticipated pilot actions. Pilot procedures and recommended practices are set forth in the AIM, CFRs, and pertinent military regulations.

So, of course they don't ever file you over the "correct" STAR for the runway in use into places like DFW and ORD. Suitably-familiar and experienced crews might have the "anticipated action" that would take them onto the "correct" arrival and someone who's bright enough should realize that driving PAST the airport and THEN trying to execute an approach might be dumb unless it's VFR and you just make a pattern entry. Note that the plates, at least in DFW, say "For use for NORTH flow. When landing SOUTH, file and EXPECT the umpty-ump." (emphasis added)

Though the idea of coming charging into a place like either DFW or ORD with no two-way communications sounds like adding another emergency to an emergency, and not my idea of a good time; I'd rather divert to an outlying air carrier field and get the airplane fixed assuming a complete loss of communications.

Which does not answer the OP's question, necessarily.

 

[derg]

Ah come on. Can’t I just change it with while you’re sleeping?

You have disturbing fantasies about me! LOL

 

[Old Pete]

There are several questions here, but let me take the lost com question, if you have a clearance for a particular star that leads to landing in a particular direction, but you know that The ATIS indicates that the airport is landing in the opposite direction, but you lose coms before atc amends your clearance, and you choose to mindlessly follow your last clearance you are an idiot, ( even if the wrong way landing doesn’t exceed your tailwind limitation).

 

[Old Pete]

As a lost communications aside, FAA Order 7110.65Z, 10-4-4, Note (1):




Though the idea of coming charging into a place like either DFW or ORD with no two-way communications sounds like adding another emergency to an emergency, and not my idea of a good time; I'd rather divert to an outlying air carrier field
.

I would have far more confidence that an ORD or DFW (or ATL or IAH) controller would get others out of my way.

 

[🦈💜]

The word you guys are looking for is mnemonic.

Put in what you're cleared for, because it's what you're actually cleared for. Secondary flt plan for what's expected. Don't flip it over until it's cleared. That's not just for lost comms, it's good practice.

 

[form810]

PF questions Captain, that if the ATIS is stating to expect 26L why we would plan to fly a STAR for 8R, and if NORDO go back to your AVEF pneumonic for routing: assigned, vector, expected, filed. Argument is that it would be expected to fly a STAR for the active runway, 26L.

So, I see the value of arguments on both sides - clearance vs. expectations. What are your thoughts?

My logic is ... until they actually clear you for it, don't do it. If all they've given is an "expected", then do that when and only when you actually lose comms. Write down the expected, but don't put it in the box until cleared for it or you lose comms.

All that said, I too have occasionally found myself struggling to breathe when confronted by the "pneumonic" conditions induced by trying to interpret AVEF.

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

mnemonic.

This should help remember it.

Mnemonics Never Eliminate Man's Only Nemesis - Insufficient Cerebral Storage

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I still remember on the Airbus “MOEQF”

Which people would pronounce as Mo Queef

LMAO


Still haven’t forgotten it to this day. It’s the order of operation for abnormals…

Memory Items
OEBs
ECAM
QRH
FCOM

 

[derg]

Eww. New jet you just run the ECAM and have a coke and a smile.

 

[///AMG]

As a lost communications aside, FAA Order 7110.65Z, 10-4-4, Note (1):


So, of course they don't ever file you over the "correct" STAR for the runway in use into places like DFW and ORD. Suitably-familiar and experienced crews might have the "anticipated action" that would take them onto the "correct" arrival and someone who's bright enough should realize that driving PAST the airport and THEN trying to execute an approach might be dumb unless it's VFR and you just make a pattern entry. Note that the plates, at least in DFW, say "For use for NORTH flow. When landing SOUTH, file and EXPECT the umpty-ump." (emphasis added)

Though the idea of coming charging into a place like either DFW or ORD with no two-way communications sounds like adding another emergency to an emergency, and not my idea of a good time; I'd rather divert to an outlying air carrier field and get the airplane fixed assuming a complete loss of communications.

Which does not answer the OP's question, necessarily.

hah yeah, I have yet to go to DFW filed for the right STAR. Is that just because the flow is fickle?

And yeah, not an Fing chance I'd willingly go NORDO into anywhere with 4+ possibly concurrently used runways. I'd love to see what the AIM says about that one, when VMC. What is the ALDIS signal for "cleared to land 17R but remain clear of final for closely spaced traffic to 17C, 18L, 18R, and converging traffic to 17L, 13L and 13R. Also read back all hold short instructions"