Price Increase again
- Thread starter Fly_Unity
- Start date
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
"A troll post about the price of the citation ride, completely unsolicited and off-topic."
I guess the cost of the useless slowtation ride has nothing to do with a thread on price increases at ATP?
The Citation ride is nothing more than a marketing ploy to set apart ATP. Some kid looking at the website see's "wow, I get training in a Jet if I go to this school".
I once saw a ATP ad that said the ACPP program included "Jet training using airline pilot instructors" in reference to the Citation ride. At the moment, I can't find the reference, or perhaps they changed their website, or perhaps it was in a print ad, but it's that sort of marketing ploy that kinda gets to me, sorta like "being owned by Delta means everything".
I guess the cost of the useless slowtation ride has nothing to do with a thread on price increases at ATP?
The Citation ride is nothing more than a marketing ploy to set apart ATP. Some kid looking at the website see's "wow, I get training in a Jet if I go to this school".
I once saw a ATP ad that said the ACPP program included "Jet training using airline pilot instructors" in reference to the Citation ride. At the moment, I can't find the reference, or perhaps they changed their website, or perhaps it was in a print ad, but it's that sort of marketing ploy that kinda gets to me, sorta like "being owned by Delta means everything".
HeyEng
Well-Known Member
I don't fault ATP for the price increase. It's a business...people are paying, and WILL pay, even if (and when) it goes to 60K...I guarantee it. Some people will pay 750K for a 800 square foot house...more power to them. I ain't doing it!
For all those that "bash" the schools for their profit margins, why don't you start a flight school and run it as a not-for-profit? Maybe then you'll show those ATP "greeds".
If you don't like the pricing, don't do it. That's all....for now.
For all those that "bash" the schools for their profit margins, why don't you start a flight school and run it as a not-for-profit? Maybe then you'll show those ATP "greeds".
If you don't like the pricing, don't do it. That's all....for now.
LoadMasterC141
Well-Known Member
Personally, I thought $50k was too much, but if I had it, I would have done it. There is just no need to charge this much IMO. Take out the "Citation ride" part. Don is right(Egad, did I just say that?); it is not neccessary, but it does pay the owners' cost of flying the thing around.
Fuel prices are going down too. Last month, fuel was $3.60 for 100LL. This month it is $4.10 here. Next month, they have already said it will be back down to $3.60.
Why keep raising prices? I guess if they have people lining up to come to ATP, then why not? However, I think they will lose more money on potential customers than the increase will pay; you just cannot really measure that though. Maybe they are PURPOSELY trying to run some people off. If they are bursting at the seams now, and know they are going to run even shorter on instructors, why not try to reduce the the influx while still making some extra money? Makes good business sense. And even if they were going to use that extra money to 100% fund a FI pay increase, it STILL makes good business sense. I bet they are in dire need of instructors with a bit more experience now. This should bring some in AND perhaps keep some around a bit longer.
Fuel prices are going down too. Last month, fuel was $3.60 for 100LL. This month it is $4.10 here. Next month, they have already said it will be back down to $3.60.
Why keep raising prices? I guess if they have people lining up to come to ATP, then why not? However, I think they will lose more money on potential customers than the increase will pay; you just cannot really measure that though. Maybe they are PURPOSELY trying to run some people off. If they are bursting at the seams now, and know they are going to run even shorter on instructors, why not try to reduce the the influx while still making some extra money? Makes good business sense. And even if they were going to use that extra money to 100% fund a FI pay increase, it STILL makes good business sense. I bet they are in dire need of instructors with a bit more experience now. This should bring some in AND perhaps keep some around a bit longer.
MSUDAWG
Well-Known Member
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
MikeOH58
Well-Known Member
The way I see it, the multi engine time you build during the ACPP is prob. the biggest selling point for ATP. Seeing that ATP seems to be hiring the same amount of instructors that came through their CFI Academy as the ACPP guys, I say, why don't you go out and get all of your ratings up until the instructor for half the price of the 55K ACPP, and then pay the 7 or 8 grand they are charging for their CFI school, accept a job with ATP, and build your 250 multi hours while they pay you for doing so!
Seems a lot better to me!
Seems a lot better to me!
N826AW
Well-Known Member
Whatever happened to plain old, down right flight instruction? Why incorporate the Barbie-Jet (I like that term) course? Why get "D-Jets"?? I think its stupid. Stick with old school training guys, Cessna's and Piper's. What the hell is wrong with that?...Seriously, if a CFI can make 3x what a Regional FO makes, where's the incentive to leave to said Regional?
I'm disappointed with the direction ATP has been moving lately. Very disappointed. I was very proud of the school I went to, anymore, might as well put DCA and ATP in the same class, just different category. Waay too much debt to be starting a career at the Regional Airlines...holy hell.
I see your point. Though I understood it was the "Airline Career Pilot Program" when I signed up, it seemed the options post-ACPP were fairly broad. With the new changes it will be so airline focused that it just won't make sense for people who may want to instruct, work for a Part-135 operation or fly cargo, etc. when they finish.
Maybe it's just me since I only learned from Don's post that all the ACPPers get a Jet ride, I'm just not hell bent on flying around 50 Joe Blow's for $19k a year. So a jet ride, CRJ sim training, etc. just isn't of any value to me.
I will say I've noticed a big difference between the corporate ATP marketing speak and the atmosphere at the school. From reading the ATP website, you would think we all walk around with little countdowns to how many hours we need to apply to our favorite regionals. No doubt the majority of people are there to eventually work for a regional, but it's not exactly what the marketing fluff makes it look like.
Matt
Trip7
Well-Known Member
:yeahthat:
The students at ATP are not ATP's customer. The airlines are. ATP structures the program according to what the airlines want. That's why the ACP will now include the RJ course and at least two more RJ sims have been purchased. The price increase is due simply to supply and demand. At most of the 90 locations slots for the ACPP are booked SOLID for the next couple months. Moreover I talked with all the regional recruiters this week at OBAP and handed them my resume, then of course was told I needed more time. Then, "oh! You work at ATP, when are you doing the RJ course?" "End of September, ok, here's my card call me as soon as you get it done" Nuff said.
amorris311
Well-Known Member
marcus i hope you get there by the end of september. some of the instructors here have been pushed back two months. my guess it is a way to keep them around a little bit longer.
turbomax97
What can brown do for you?
So, what's the word on that CFI Pay increase?:rawk:
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
So besides the CRJ transition course, what are the other major changes to the ACPP that make it more airline focused?
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
Probably, but not sure how single engine jet time is going to help you out or look good on a resume!
tobaknight
New Member
Sounds like very basic supply and demand. High Student Demand + low CFI supply = cost increase, jet transition or not.
The beautiful thing is everyone has the right to attend ATP or any school of their choice. If the demand goes down, wise businessmen will adjust their price structure accordingly.
While I don't know if I would or could pay 55k for the ACPP program, I cant fault them for attempting to get the greatest return on their investment.
Wouldn't you?
And if in fact the increase is used to fund a pay increase for their CFI's, it definitely sounds like a win-win to me.
The beautiful thing is everyone has the right to attend ATP or any school of their choice. If the demand goes down, wise businessmen will adjust their price structure accordingly.
While I don't know if I would or could pay 55k for the ACPP program, I cant fault them for attempting to get the greatest return on their investment.
Wouldn't you?
And if in fact the increase is used to fund a pay increase for their CFI's, it definitely sounds like a win-win to me.
Captain_Bob
Well-Known Member
That's like saying Caravan or Pilatus time is no good... Turbine time/experience is beneficial... regardless of how many engines.
Bob
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
Bob, you're of course right. But just sayin' I see alot of mins that are asking for PIC multi turbine time!
Captain_Bob
Well-Known Member
Show me...
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
Show me entry level regional mins that include turbine time.
It's about multi. ATP already has that figured out.
I think ATP has it's sights set on a 135 charter thing with the jets. They will get the airlines to buy off on street Capts with 1700 total and 500 single engine jet PIC time. ATP will set up a program and advertise that you can buy a Capt job at a regional for 100K (PPL to regional Capt) which will include 500 hours of jet PIC time. You will work as a CFI from 90 day to 1200 total. Then, you are qualified for the single engine jet charter PIC.
For working as a jet PIC, you will be paid $1500/mo, or $1800/mo if you don't live in ATP provided housing. The payoff will be going straight to the left seat as an airline pilot, thus not wasting your time as a lowly jet F/O.
Any takers? Financing isn't a problem and you'll be years ahead of people who do the traditional "climbing the ladder" thing....
It's about multi. ATP already has that figured out.
I think ATP has it's sights set on a 135 charter thing with the jets. They will get the airlines to buy off on street Capts with 1700 total and 500 single engine jet PIC time. ATP will set up a program and advertise that you can buy a Capt job at a regional for 100K (PPL to regional Capt) which will include 500 hours of jet PIC time. You will work as a CFI from 90 day to 1200 total. Then, you are qualified for the single engine jet charter PIC.
For working as a jet PIC, you will be paid $1500/mo, or $1800/mo if you don't live in ATP provided housing. The payoff will be going straight to the left seat as an airline pilot, thus not wasting your time as a lowly jet F/O.
Any takers? Financing isn't a problem and you'll be years ahead of people who do the traditional "climbing the ladder" thing....