TFaudree_ERAU
Mashin' dem buttons
Did anyone mention the C340 yet?
Pressurized Twin
- Thread starter pilotb59
- Start date
wjmiller3
Well-Known Member
Whoops, completely missed it. Well then my next question, why a twin. There are plenty of singles that can meet your needs and drastically reduce operating cost. I am unsure how many you will find that meet the pressurized requirement you are looking for.
However, have you looked at the requirements for RVSM limits of 28,000 feet. A non pressurized aircraft can go to 25,000 and to my knowledge an aircraft needs special equipment/certifications to operate RVSM. I know the pilot needs training for an RVSM cert. Is the extra 3,000 feet really worth it? Can you get a pressurized aircraft, certified RVSM for under 275k?
N519AT
Ahh! This is how I change this!
You don't need to be RVSM compliant if you're doing all of your flights at or below FL280. Or if you have the capability to climb through RVSM airspace without stopping, above FL410.
KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
Hmm, I would imagine he wants a twin because he's got one now, but just guessing. As to the pressurization, I would imagine there is a big comfort factor with not having to have everyone sucking the bottle while your in flight.
Lots of twin's in that range would accomplish the mission. Seems to be lots of 340's listed in that range right now. As are some of the 421's. Likewise with the Commander 700. Or dare I even suggest a Cessna T303? Sort of like the Commander 700, but with a few more made.
The Gardener
Terrafirma Phobic
I'm surprised the Beech Duke hasn't even been suggested.
That is my point. A current non-pressurized aircraft will have a service ceiling of FL250. Will anything he is mentioning really be able to climb above FL410? If not he needs RVSM certifications.
If he can't get above FL410 and doesn't have RVSM certs, the result is buying a whole new airplane just to get to FL280. A total increase of 3,000 feet from FL250 for a non-pressurized aircraft.
wjmiller3
Well-Known Member
Never have been up close to a Duke, and dont know much about them, but they sure are damn good looking airplanes.... And the turbine Duke conversion is SWEEET!!
It isn't pressurized.
KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
Yeah it is. I was in one once, and it was just amazing. But, for the money, buy a Kingair 90. Pilotb59 had said he was kind of interested in staying away from geared engines, thus why I left the Duke off. When I think of geared engines going bad and costing tons of money, I think Duke.
...and the comfort of not sucking on a mask for the entire flight. Most of those planes (421, 414, etc.) are happy in the upper teens to low 20s. Taking them up into the 30s might be possible, but really isn't accomplishing much other than maybe a slight decrease in fuel burn and possibly getting over some weather.
RVSM training for the pilot isn't really a big deal. I think you can do it with the Kings for $50 or $100. Plus, sim school (FSI) is going to be able to cover that anyway.
It's the aircraft certification and maintenance that can/could be a PITA. I know a Citation I owner that looked at doing it and decided that the cost of RVSMing the plane could buy a lot of gas...so that's what they do.
-mini
wjmiller3
Well-Known Member
There is a huge difference, everybody in the plane won't look like they are SCUBA diving with a full face O2 mask on at 25,000. And the ride down is much more pleasant to the pax if you have to make a fast descent. I rarely fly unpressurized A/C above 12.5, but it is a pain in the ass to get out hoses and hook all that crap up to climb over a peak and them come back down again just so you can take the tubes out of your nose...
edit: Mini types faster than me....
dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
Just as a minor point, the 402 has a service ceiling of FL270 and is unpressurized. Maybe newer planes are limited to FL250.
KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
Except that the duke isn't geared.
TIO-540-somethingsomethingsomething
-mini
Doh! I knew that. Its the rare engine on the Duke that makes it a bear to deal with. TIO-541's.
I would just wear a nasal cannula personally. Nothing says you need a mask and if your breathing right these are just fine and 100 times more comfortable. Aside from the slight comfort increase on descent, I don't see much of a reason to drastically increase MX costs and buy a new aircraft. But hey, it isn't my money. Just saying if it was, I wouldn't spend it there.
If I was set on pressurization, and didn't need more than 6 seats, I would stick to a single. Save a heck of a lot on MX over a twin, and fuel, and put a the extra money into the initial purchase.
Piper malibu: http://www.aircraftdealer.com/aircraft_for_sale/Piper_Malibu/128/page-1.htm
Cut your MX and fuel burn in half and up the initial buy price to 350k. The extra 75k would be made back in a couple years with MX/fuel savings.
PS: If the reason for a twin is "safety," which I suspect it is. I would recommend some google searches to discover the fallacies behind this belief.
Dasleban: Cool, that makes my original point even more pronounced. Only an extra 1,000 feet then. Unless of course he can climb above FL410 or certifies the A/C for RVSM.
Until you hit FL180.
Until you hit FL180.
Yeah, singles are much safer when the engine quits over mountains or at night or in IMC. Much safer.
No. Your original point still makes no sense. Plenty of pressurized aircraft never get into/above RVSM altitudes. Even jets. Lots of 20-series Lears flying around without RVSM. Burn LOTS of gas. But do you know what it cost to RVSM 'em? Lots more.
-mini
The Gardener
Terrafirma Phobic
Which, if were choosing on sexiness there are only 2 choices; Duke or 340!
wjmiller3
Well-Known Member
I was going to type your cannula argument but I see Mini beat me to it. And the twin "safety" numbers are tarred by morons and people with more money that sense and ability. I get scared to death when I see the idiots that pass multi checkrides. But you stay in your single and I'll be in a twin and lets both cut an engine at night 10 times, all 10 times I will call you a rescue party from the bar in the airport.... Cause I will pick an airport with a bar to land at....
