Pressing "Start" on the timer when shooting an ILS

All that said, in initial instrument training, I'm all for hacking the clock to form great habit patterns for when the dme or g/s gives up the ghost in machines otherwise unabe to discerne the MAP. At least you can initiate a climb to MAP alt, overfly the waypoint, then continue the navigation portion out to a hold or divert.

To correct my earlier post: it is a goatrope on a PRM, not PAR.
 
ppragman said:
No such thing as an unexpected missed approach or go-around right? I mean, realistically, I brief to myself what I'm going to do "in the event of a missed," to include thinking (in a crew I usually don't say it, guys look at you funny ;) )"alright, mixtures, props, throttles (or props full forward, power as required in turbine equipment) full forward, flaps 15, positive rate of climb, gear up, flaps up when appropriate, after takeoff check." It's easy to forget, and I used to bungle through a missed until I started rehearsing in my head what I was going to do. Yes we don't go to a missed that often, but it should be cemented in your mind as one of only a few possible outcomes.
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So you brief all that regarding a missed to yourself with no issue, but another number such as an MDA throws a complete monkey wrench into the mix? :D
 
dasleben said:
My friend, I fly junk designed in the late 1970s. :)

Airline safety culture has done tremendous things for air safety. It's conservative. It's boring. We operate well inside the envelope. That's why it's safer than every other mode of transport.
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Eh, corporate aviation is the safest. Half the accident rate of 121. ;)
 
dasleben said:
This thread has no doubt been beat half to death, but what about an approach like this, with a couple stepdowns inside the FAF? We'll say you lost the glideslope at 1300' MSL:

http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1211/00237IL24L.PDF

It can surely be done, but I don't feel an unplanned missed has near the same potential for an error (and really, I've never seen an unplanned missed get substantially out of hand).

Credit to Polar742 for passing this one along.
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Either you have dme or radar contact to id the fix. Have to read the whole plate. If you're lost com and /u you can't do the approach.
 
dasleben said:
Well I'll be damned. Also, you are internets-speak fail. :)
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Just joshing you mang

I tried to pick apart the NTSB report from this year for something that would at least appear to be less biased, but they don't even specifically address corporate aviation. They mention business aviation but they specifically state that corporate aviation isn't included in that segment.
 
dasleben said:
Truthfully, if the glideslope failed on me halfway down the ILS, I would miss. If the GS is wonky, what's the status of the LOC?
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This... Maybe its good for SA but if I am shooting one type of approach and for some reason, IE GS FAIL, I am not going to just transition to another. Off on the missed we go and I will shoot the next one as a timed LOC approach.
 
MikeD, I'm with you on this one. (Maybe it's cause I'm a Herk nav).

It takes literally NO effort to brief an altitude (MDA) and a time (MAP), which by the way is a few inches away if you forget it, requires no navaid change, no course change, and very little altitude change (usually a level-off). At most fields, the LOC is also the next lowest approach vs. the VOR, so going around is just going to mean doing the exact same approach again.

Starting it every time prevents you from *wishing* you started it the one time you end up with a failed GS on a bad day.

It might be a military thing- we expect you to have a safe backup plan and USE IT when things change. Not just hit the reset button.
 
The "reset button" is the safe backup plan. It's pretty much fail-safe, and when you're carrying mom, dad, and grandma in the back, that's what matters.
 
kiloalpha said:
This is pretty much the response I had expected... One of the old timer's my student flies with drilled this into him and I set him straight... Looks like I have another debate coming soon.
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Excuse me if this was already mentioned somewhere in the zillion responses that followed. I didn't feel like reading through all of them.

When you have this debate with the old timer, he is likely to ask you a question. That question is "how will you know at what point to begin your missed approach if you lose the glide slope (and don't have a GPS or DME associated with the approach) unless you time it?" What will you tell the old timer?
 
Houston said:
Excuse me if this was already mentioned somewhere in the zillion responses that followed. I didn't feel like reading through all of them.

When you have this debate with the old timer, he is likely to ask you a question. That question is "how will you know at what point to begin your missed approach if you lose the glide slope (and don't have a GPS or DME associated with the approach) unless you time it?" What will you tell the old timer?
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Houston said:
Excuse me if this was already mentioned somewhere in the zillion responses that followed. I didn't feel like reading through all of them.

When you have this debate with the old timer, he is likely to ask you a question. That question is "how will you know at what point to begin your missed approach if you lose the glide slope (and don't have a GPS or DME associated with the approach) unless you time it?" What will you tell the old timer?
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Start it when you cross the localizer antenna. Sure it's the opposite end of the runway, but timing isn't exactly accurate either.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus that ate your iPhone.
 
Ralgha said:
Start it when you cross the localizer antenna. Sure it's the opposite end of the runway, but timing isn't exactly accurate either.
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The typical runway with an ILS approach is between one and two nautical miles in length. Combine that with the vagueness of determining where the localizer antenna might be on top of the effort associated with making a missed approach and it seems difficult to justify forgoing the timing.
 
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