Poor Sun Country

ATN_Pilot said:
I don't necessarily disagree with that, but the reality is that the NMB isn't interested in driving companies out of business, so they aren't going to let a labor group strike if that would be the result. If you can't demonstrate that the company can afford your demands without changing their business model, then the NMB isn't going to release you, ever.
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Can a private firm be compelled to provide audited financial statements during a labor negotiation?
 
So the question becomes, should the pilot group walk out outside of NMB approval, is this is still considered struck work if someone else hops in the seat?
 
gotWXdagain said:
So the question becomes, should the pilot group walk out outside of NMB approval, is this is still considered struck work if someone else hops in the seat?
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I'm sure you'd find varying opinions on that. I wouldn't consider it struck work, personally, but I'm sure others would.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I'm sure you'd find varying opinions on that. I wouldn't consider it struck work, personally, but I'm sure others would.
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Why not? Your fellow pilot bretheren are fighting for better working conditions and by doing the work you're saying that the status quo is just fine.
 
ppragman said:
Even if the law is unethical? ;-). Not saying the RLA is, rather I am curious why whenever someone espouses a legalist stance.
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First, it's not in this case. But if it were, there are ways to effect change, and that wouldn't be it.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
If it's not a legal job action, it's not struck work, no?
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That's certainly my view. But as I said, I'm sure you'll find a bunch of militant guys who would call you a scab for daring to not become a criminal as they demand.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I don't support breaking the law.
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If people didn't break the law we'd still have this:
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And our flag would still look like this:
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ATN_Pilot said:
That's certainly my view. But as I said, I'm sure you'll find a bunch of militant guys who would call you a scab for daring to not become a criminal as they demand.
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I mean, law aside, I'm of the mind that if a group says they're striking and walks off the job...well, then they're striking and I sure as hell wouldn't cross the pocket line, even if it wasn't a legal strike. I would call in sick or something at very least.

It may just be the wild libertarian in me, but my heart tends to tell me that any law that says you cannot legally strike even if the workers have all voted together to authorize said strike is unjust. I rank it in the same sense as having to get a permit to protest. If you have to apply or otherwise ask some sort of person for permission prior to doing it, it's not a right, it's a privilege, and privileges can be taken away.

I mean, what the heck are they gonna do if a union were to strike anyway? Throw the leadership in jail? Seems like a violation of someone's civil rights...

Educate me, someone tell me how and why giving up the right to strike at will helps pilots. I'm not being facetious at all, I want to know why?
 
Seggy said:
Oy. Pilots would love to strike weekly if they could. The threat of a strike is huge. If we went striking every week it diminishes that threat.
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Is this the one you're talking about? I can't see post numbers on mobile for some reason today.


I mean, if so, that's a pretty weak argument and I don't think that it follows. The threat of a strike does not diminish in size if you threaten it more often. The threat is always the same, "we don't think this is cool, let's sit down and come to an agreement that's good for both sides, or we will shutter this place until you come to your senses and we can start negotiating as equals again." I also don't think that pilots would strike willy nilly without the RLA either. Other industries without the RLA aren't striking wildly.
 
ppragman said:
Is this the one you're talking about? I can't see post numbers on mobile for some reason today.


I mean, if so, that's a pretty weak argument and I don't think that it follows. The threat of a strike does not diminish in size if you threaten it more often. The threat is always the same, "we don't think this is cool, let's sit down and come to an agreement that's good for both sides, or we will shutter this place until you come to your senses and we can start negotiating as equals again." I also don't think that pilots would strike willy nilly without the RLA either. Other industries without the RLA aren't striking wildly.
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I have no idea what you are saying here. What I do know is you have no idea what you are talking about.

The bottom line is, the threat of a strike is huge. In your unrealistic world if you strike monthly over little issues folks will grow immune to it. I was in Europe a few years ago trying to get from AMS to ARN. The SAS Pilots were on strike on select flights for a day. Didn't raise an eyebrow over there. You do that here, it will be noticed.

Furthermore, this is a ridiculous thing to even be discussing. There is a process in place with the NMB to get to a strike. That process has worked over the years.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
That's certainly my view. But as I said, I'm sure you'll find a bunch of militant guys who would call you a scab for daring to not become a criminal as they demand.
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Having been called one for merely being employed, those that misuse that very specific, very caustic term can go to hell.

I personally would resign rather than operate (actually) struck work, even as a non-union pilot.
 
ppragman said:
I mean, law aside, I'm of the mind that if a group says they're striking and walks off the job...well, then they're striking and I sure as hell wouldn't cross the pocket line, even if it wasn't a legal strike. I would call in sick or something at very least.

It may just be the wild libertarian in me, but my heart tends to tell me that any law that says you cannot legally strike even if the workers have all voted together to authorize said strike is unjust. I rank it in the same sense as having to get a permit to protest. If you have to apply or otherwise ask some sort of person for permission prior to doing it, it's not a right, it's a privilege, and privileges can be taken away.

I mean, what the heck are they gonna do if a union were to strike anyway? Throw the leadership in jail? Seems like a violation of someone's civil rights...

Educate me, someone tell me how and why giving up the right to strike at will helps pilots. I'm not being facetious at all, I want to know why?
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You can "strike" outside of the NMB. It's just you, but you can do it. We call it quitting. If the conditions are bad enough many other people will do the same. No one is forcing you to go to work.
 
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