Plane down in PTK

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He might not have been overweight but with such factors as density altitude a plane that might not be performing great and an inexperienced pilot he got caught up how it wasn't climbing out well- it is probably one of those things that while your instincts say to go back experience would likely say continue your slow climb shallow slow turns if necessary get up to 300 - 400 fly a low pattern and bring it around.
 
I_Money said:
He might not have been overweight but with such factors as density altitude a plane that might not be performing great and an inexperienced pilot he got caught up how it wasn't climbing out well- it is probably one of those things that while your instincts say to go back experience would likely say continue your slow climb shallow slow turns if necessary get up to 300 - 400 fly a low pattern and bring it around.
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I'm flying a 172S (usually a little peppier) and even with myself (a scrawny guy) and a student on board we've been lucky to get 500fpm with this heat the past couple weeks. I couldn't imagine even with 1 other person in there.
 
I've flown plenty of 172s with every seat filled. Usually go with an hour of gas and plan for a 30 min flight. And even then it isn't always possible... Just depends on the weight of the people I'm bringing. RIP to this family. They died because the son was stupid. It's just sad he didn't have more respect for aviation and his aircraft. Either can kill you quick if you don't respect them enough to follow due diligence in pre-flight preparation.
 
chrisreedrules said:
They died because
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Have a little respect.

None of us here know exactly what happened. Overweight is a good possibility, poor planning another. Chances are the cause will be some sort of pilot error, and we should learn from that. It is not our place to crucify based on assumptions (or even previous experience) because we don't know all the facts.
 
dc3flyer said:
Have a little respect.

None of us here know exactly what happened. Overweight is a good possibility, poor planning another. Chances are the cause will be some sort of pilot error, and we should learn from that. It is not our place to crucify based on assumptions (or even previous experience) because we don't know all the facts.
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I couldn't have said it better.
 
Maybe I'm callous because I've dealt with death a lot throughout my life... IF the aircraft was overweight and IF the pilot knew about it before takeoff (which he should have) then they died because he was stupid. Hopefully that strokes your sensitive bone. Not trying to be a jerk, but to me any competent pilot should know to do a w/b before takeoff with a full load that way and check to make sure the fuel was at the appropriate levels during the pre-flight. And I know of pilots who have flown 172s a hundred + pounds overweight and were still able to maintain a decent climb rate on the hottest summer days here in FL... So this guy must of been a good bit over the max gross IF it was a weight issue.
 
dc3flyer said:
Sorry dude, I don't have a sensitive bone. I just don't like Monday morning quarterbacks talking about things they have no idea about.
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He does have a point though. If the aircraft was overweight and the pilot knew it, then this accident is unnecessary and inexcusable. EVERY pilot owes it to their passengers to do their job and keep them safe and that starts well before anyone steps into the aircraft. He had a responsibility to his parents (among others) to insure that he did his job which includes calculating a W&B beforehand.

Now, there could be about a million reasons as to the human factors side of this and the steps leading up to the accident. The investigative process on the back-end of accidents sometimes comes up with very interesting reasons as to why a pilot did what they did.
 
chrisreedrules said:
Maybe I'm callous because I've dealt with death a lot throughout my life... IF the aircraft was overweight and IF the pilot knew about it before takeoff (which he should have) then they died because he was stupid. Hopefully that strokes your sensitive bone. Not trying to be a jerk, but to me any competent pilot should know to do a w/b before takeoff with a full load that way and check to make sure the fuel was at the appropriate levels during the pre-flight. And I know of pilots who have flown 172s a hundred + pounds overweight and were still able to maintain a decent climb rate on the hottest summer days here in FL... So this guy must of been a good bit over the max gross IF it was a weight issue.
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I hope that, not IF, but WHEN, you make a stupid mistake, it isn't fatal, and you aren't discussed callously on a web board.

We all make mistakes, and we all made huge mistakes when we were new pilots. I know that I'm only here today because my stupid mistakes happened to not kill me. So...please, lay off the accusatory tone.
 
jtrain609 said:
"Hello, is this dangerous CRM attitudes? It's so good to talk with you again."
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Dangerous CRM attitude? This is going to be interesting. Explain my dangerous attitude, Mister CRM class graduate. Yes, we are all capable of making mistakes. Should we all agree that we are ALL capable of making this mistake? Is that your point? What are the odds this crash was the result of an arithmetic error?

On a constructive note, I rarely rent, do schools or FBOs attempt to screen for bad ideas like this? Even if MTW was within limits, shouldn't somebody be enforcing a stricter standard for low-time pilots?
 
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