Plane Crash in Savannah

[Mark815]

It can be done crew-wise, but to do so it has to be briefed as a possibility, with both crewmembers knowing and understanding their instant role(s) in the event of occurrence. No different than something like a V1 cut with regards to the same idea.

When I was at PS that was our normal T\O brief. We'd discuss who would fly and who would talk, and what we'd do if we lost it. Like you said, no different than in a jet. We would practice the sub 1000' turnback in the sim, and on my yearly checkride we would also do sim engine outs, almost like in a Cessna. The PC12 is not only solidly built, but it can definitely glide quite a distance if needed, and best of all, with everything hanging out you'll hit the ground at Skyhawk speeds vs swept wing jet speeds.

One big thing that I and other pilots there would avoid if possible was intersection departures at certain airports. The PC12 is super capable, and 2500' of runway is plenty to get off the ground, but there were a few airports where I'd only accept an intersection that would give me at least 5000', or full length. I'd hate to have to explain why I crashed a single engine airplane because I elected to lineup with 3500' of runway, with 6000'+ behind me.

 

[milleR]

It can be done crew-wise, but to do so it has to be briefed as a possibility, with both crewmembers knowing and understanding their instant role(s) in the event of occurrence.

I agree, and with a well-trained crew that flies together regularly and trains for the event it would probably be a non-issue. But when crews rotate on a regular basis the opportunity to introduce confusion or a weak crew member goes up exponentially. You'll never get turned around below 500' if both people aren't in lockstep on the procedure and their individual responsibilities.

No different than something like a V1 cut with regards to the same idea.

Not really. There's a significantly wider margin for error with a V1 cut, especially in a modern turbofan aircraft, than there is trying to dead stick a 180 degree+ turn below 1000'.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

 

[Boris Badenov]

Just read a local article which said the "pilot and passenger" (presumably the two pilots) were standing by the airplane when the ARFF arrived, so that seems like good news.

 

[MikeD]

Not really. There's a significantly wider margin for error with a V1 cut, especially in a modern turbofan aircraft, than there is trying to dead stick a 180 degree+ turn below 1000'

In terms of a situation that happens quick and requires both crew to be on their game instantly, they're about the same in that regard.

 

[gliderboy]

What I want to know is why the engine failed on T/O, this is the second or third such event with a Pilatus I've read of recently. Can the pilot break the engine by over-torquing/over-temping on T/O (as with a Caravan)? Given that it's a turbine, these all seem like pilot-induced accidents..... or not?

 

[Roger Roger]

What I want to know is why the engine failed on T/O, this is the second or third such event with a Pilatus I've read of recently. Can the pilot break the engine by over-torquing/over-temping on T/O (as with a Caravan)? Given that it's a turbine, these all seem like pilot-induced accidents..... or not?

Boggles my mind that a torque/temp limiter is not standard on PT6s yet.

 

[Boris Badenov]

It's a single lever, self-limiting on torque, and I don't believe I ever saw the temp get anywhere near the limits on takeoff. I suppose in theory whatever dohicky prevents you from overtorquing could fail (been a while), but I've never heard of it happening.

 

[🦈💜]

Boggles my mind that a torque/temp limiter is not standard on PT6s yet.

Friend of mine almost put a garrett-powered caravan into a lake because of a failing TTL.

(Fortunately, it was a floatplane)

 

[🦈💜]

It's a single lever, self-limiting on torque, and I don't believe I ever saw the temp get anywhere near the limits on takeoff. I suppose in theory whatever dohicky prevents you from overtorquing could fail (been a while), but I've never heard of it happening.

It's so very not hard to not overtorque a PT6 on takeoff. I've never seen it approach a temp limit ever.

Go-arounds, though, especially in complex terrain, I could see.

-FOx

 

[Roger Roger]

Friend of mine almost put a garrett-powered caravan into a lake because of a failing TTL.

(Fortunately, it was a floatplane)

"Failing TTL" or wiring/control failure that is easily bypassed by switching the SRL switch off?

 

[RedBaron2000]

It's so very not hard to not overtorque a PT6 on takeoff. I've never seen it approach a temp limit ever.

Go-arounds, though, especially in complex terrain, I could see.

-FOx

Depends on the PT6, and how "worn out" the engine is. On certain applications (on the Caravan for example) it's not hard to set torque and be near ITT or Ng limits on an engine nearing TBO/HSI. There is more "grace" when exceeding ITT limits but not Ng. If you go past 101.6 for even a second you get to split the case.

 

[RedBaron2000]

Also depends on where you're operating from. If you're taking off from Savannah in the winter, sure that's easy. Come to Indonesia at an airstrip at 5000' and 30C and you need to be very precise setting Tq for takeoff.

 

[Boris Badenov]

Come to Indonesia at an airstrip at 5000' and 30C and you need to be very precise setting Tq for takeoff.

Unless you're in a PC-12, which limits it for you.

 

[gotWXdagain]

I would have a hard time believing a pilot-induced overtemp would be the cause of a Pilatipi-mounted PT6 engine failure out of SAV this time of year. APA on a hot summer day? Maybe if you do something really stupid, like take off with the ECS going AND the De-ice boots blowing (but that would be really stupid, at least the Boots part).

 

[RedBaron2000]

Unless you're in a PC-12, which limits it for you.

I'm not familiar with the PC12. How does it limit Tq?

 

[Boris Badenov]

I'm not familiar with the PC12. How does it limit Tq?

I have no idea, purged that information to make room for more cat pictures.

 

[🦈💜]

Also depends on where you're operating from. If you're taking off from Savannah in the winter, sure that's easy. Come to Indonesia at an airstrip at 5000' and 30C and you need to be very precise setting Tq for takeoff.

Now that you mention it, Alaska did spoil me on the PT6 operational envelope.

Disregard.

-Fox

 

[RedBaron2000]

Now that you mention it, Alaska did spoil me on the PT6 operational envelope.

Disregard.

-Fox

[emoji848]Ive always wondered what it'd be like to take off colder than 23C...just don't ask me about the cold temp limits on my airplane. I'm sure it has them...

 

[MikeOH58]

Way back when, wasn't there a FCU issue that turned a couple PC12's into gliders?

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

I'm not familiar with the PC12. How does it limit Tq?

It bleeds off variable Py air from the FCU to reduce power if Torque exceeds 44.3(I think?). In practical terms it means you can just shove the power control lever to the wall if you were so inclined. I tend not to do that though.