Pinnacle Interviews in Jacksonville, FL

[meritflyer]

I agree with most of you and your points. Do what you need to do whether you want to instruct, buy a type rating on a 777, or a bridge program. You can all play the "what if" scenario as Bob discussed which is a possibility but not always as close to a reality as some may portray. What if you won the lotto, quit your job, bought a small island where you lived and stored your cash in a safe and a giant tsunami hit and wiped your home and money out but you were on your GV. Kind of a rash comparison, I know. However, you deal with the "what ifs" when they happen.

 

[blee256]

The airlines have never had a problem finding pilots. Never. There has always been a supply of military and civilian pilots for them to hire. Whether it was high timers or low, they have always been able to fill the right and left seat with a "qualified" pilot. The wages are precursed by market demand and market supply and then negotiated by the ALPA. If there is a minimal amount of pilots to fly airliners, guess what? High wages.

I agree with you 100%. It is about market supply and market demand. What these programs do is let Airlines manipulate Market supply of pilots, by now opening up hiring to people with lower mins. If there wasnt a shortage, why would there be a need to sign these bridge programs?? IF ther are so many 121 pilots out on street, or 1000+ hours CFIs why, would a company want to hire a 500 hour pilot that did a meaning less "transition" program?

Skywest, XJT, Pinnacle, AWAC, ASA, PSA, XJ, Horizon, American Eagle, Colgan, CHQ,mesa and others where all hiring last year. I do think airlines were having hard time finding applicants. Why else would Skywest start offering pay during training again? Or Pinnacle start to provide pay(if you can call it that) and hotel? IF they were getting so many qualified applicants there is no need for them to change the training package would there? So what did the other airlines start doing? Dropping Mins to INCREASE SUPPLY. You cant tellme you disagree with this?

from page 2 of this thread

Airlines should make their company's look more attractive to come and work for instead of dropping mins to attract a less experienced group of applicants.

When Microsoft or IBM (or insert any other quality company here) needs software engineers(Insert corresponding profession here) they raise the compensation package. I doubt they start attending high school and Junior college career fairs.

 

[NYer914]

Just my cents again...I feel that the knowledge gained while instructing is absolutley necessary if one wants to go to the airlines. I learned so much while I instructed for 8 monthes...10-16 hours per day...7 days a week...teaching mostly initial instrument ratings I amazed myself sometimes how it really made me sharp and prepared me for the airlines (particularly the interview). I know some guys that bought their time and did not become instructors, they did not have the necessary instrument knowledge for a successful airline interview. In short....becoming a CFI is imperative to becoming a professional pilot.

 

[Bigey]

Just my cents again...I feel that the knowledge gained while instructing is absolutley necessary if one wants to go to the airlines. I learned so much while I instructed for 8 monthes...10-16 hours per day...7 days a week...teaching mostly initial instrument ratings I amazed myself sometimes how it really made me sharp and prepared me for the airlines (particularly the interview). I know some guys that bought their time and did not become instructors, they did not have the necessary instrument knowledge for a successful airline interview. In short....becoming a CFI is imperative to becoming a professional pilot.

Hrmm i think instructing is great, but i wouldnt say it makes you any less of a pilot.

I was talking to a DL capt who never was an instructor. Got his commercial and darted to create his own lil air taxi thing. Yet again...this was a capt at delta so im going to say he must of been a damn good pilot and knew what he was doing.

 

[NYer914]

Hrmm i think instructing is great, but i wouldnt say it makes you any less of a pilot.

I was talking to a DL capt who never was an instructor. Got his commercial and darted to create his own lil air taxi thing. Yet again...this was a capt at delta so im going to say he must of been a damn good pilot and knew what he was doing.

I didn't say that instructing made one less of a pilot...I said that one should be a CFI because it makes that person a stronger pilot...I'm sure there are a few exceptions out there like your Delta Captain friend, but in the broad scheme of things my feeling is get and use your CFI.

 

[jtrain609]

I've found that the people that knock instructing the most never instructed.

 

[meritflyer]

I didn't say that instructing made one less of a pilot...I said that one should be a CFI because it makes that person a stronger pilot...I'm sure there are a few exceptions out there like your Delta Captain friend, but in the broad scheme of things my feeling is get and use your CFI.

Different jobs as a commercial pilot provide different experiences. I am planning on being a CFI soon however I dont think its necessary to be one to be an airline pilot. I dont even plan on being an airline pilot and I am still getting my CFI certs. I know many people who never instructed who have made great airline, corporate, and major airline pilots (Captains). Everyone is different and we all need to respect that. I flew with a 20 year veteran for business who was deadheading on America West who was a 757 captain (currently) and never instructed. He and his friend bought an old 310 to build time in, went to a commuter for a few years, and then got on with America West. Flew 737, 767, and now in on the 757. He is also a checkpilot. So the moral of the story is you do not need to be a CFI to be a great airline pilot. If you choose to work a paying job and rent a bird to build time, you are on your own to teach yourself the lessons of flying so hopefully you are very self motivated. Being a CFI, a student will teach you the lessons and keep you on your toes.

There are plenty of non-CFI pilots who didnt want to build time as an instructor. That is okay. There are other ways to build valuable and quality time.

 

[kellwolf]

There are plenty of non-CFI pilots who didnt want to build time as an instructor. That is okay. There are other ways to build valuable and quality time.

[/quote]

Agree 100%. I stand by my statement earlier that there are tons of CFIs out there that SHOULDN'T be CFIs. There are other ways to get that quality time that would make them and the people around them much happier. I also stand by my opinion that a jet transition class and a few hours in an FTD do NOT replace quality time. The simulator environment (no matter how hectic it may be sometimes) is not the same as real life.

Bob, I've always said that every pilot is an individual and has to do what works well for them. I've said it numerous times in this thread. I still think that the starry eyed pilots that jump at the glossy ads promising the right seat in an RJ in 5-6 months lower the bar. Show me a 5 year captain that will take a cut in pay or QOL in order to get these guys more 1st year pay, and I'll show you a bona fide saint. More likely the company will come to the union with a proposal for the older guys in order to cut costs to sell the younger guys out (i.e. NWA). Heck, it may even happen here. PCL wants to cut captain pay in order to raise our abysmal second year FO pay. I don't see many first or second year FOs on any negotiating committees.

Sometimes I wish I were still in Dallas so me, you, John and Kelvin could discuss this over beer and hot dogs.

 

[Captain_Bob]

Bob... Sometimes I wish I were still in Dallas so me, you, John and Kelvin could discuss this over beer and hot dogs.

I prefer beer and brats, is that's OK?

kellwolf, surely you'll get an overnight in DFW... At least now you know you won't have to hang at the airprot Marriot with your slam clicking crew when you get here!

I'm hoping the best for you and all the pinnacle guys! Keep us abreast of the situation over there!

Bob

 

[Sodbuster]

I've found that the people that knock instructing the most never instructed.

Amen, brother.

 

[kellwolf]

I prefer beer and brats, is that's OK?

kellwolf, surely you'll get an overnight in DFW... At least now you know you won't have to hang at the airprot Marriot with your slam clicking crew when you get here!

I'm hoping the best for you and all the pinnacle guys! Keep us abreast of the situation over there!

Bob

Beer and brats are much better. Not sure on the DFW overnights. I'm pretty sure the Mesaba guys get those, and I THINK we have one or two out of the MEM base. I'll find out soon enough. If so, you can bet there'll be a get together.

 

[meritflyer]

People here at JC will argue that you need your CFI to become an airline pilot. I have read threads about 3000 hour CPs that didnt get hired because they didnt "pay their dues". What a load of crap. There are ways to build time and training that do not require a CFI. I have flown with 10,000 hour ATPs that werent CFIs. How does a 300 hour CFI give instruction to a 5,000 ATP with no CFI ticket. Its intimidating from what my CFI friends have told me.

There are things that are learned out on your own. Cross countries are a great place to start, VFR or IFR. I hate the mentality that "you must pay your dues" to get a job. To each his own. As stated by many CFIs and CPs here, there are quality ways to build quality time and earn your way to an airline job. Not everyone wanting to be a professional pilot can do the whole CFI thing. People need to get real and start accepting experiences other than their own. If some guy didnt become a CFI, is he not as good of a pilot as you are (assuming you are a CFI). It depends. Each case is different. Its stupid for a CFI to think he/she is superior becaue they are sitting next to some guy that has the same amount of time but lack the CFI on their certificate.

I am sure a CFI would feel subpar talking about RJs and their performance, ect. to a CP with 500+ hours and a type rating. I know I would.

 

[KLB]

People here at JC will argue that you need your CFI to become an airline pilot. I have read threads about 3000 hour CPs that didnt get hired because they didnt "pay their dues". What a load of crap. There are ways to build time and training that do not require a CFI. I have flown with 10,000 hour ATPs that werent CFIs. How does a 300 hour CFI give instruction to a 5,000 ATP with no CFI ticket. Its intimidating from what my CFI friends have told me.

I have flown with 3000hr airline pilots, military pilots, and all other types. And some of them have scared me more than anyone else I've trained flown. They usually get to slow and flare to high on short final. And suprisingly they forget to do the checklist because they are used to having a FO doing it with them. Some of them have really great single pilot skills while others....not so much.

But I have to admit that none of them looked down on me as the "little CFI Guy" or lowtimer. They were all open to my suggestions, critiques, and, demonstrations. All of them have been class acts so far.

[/quote]I am sure a CFI would feel subpar talking about RJs and their performance, ect. to a CP with 500+ hours and a type rating. I know I would.[/quote]

Not really. I consider myself a professional. I respect how far they've gotten in the industry and look to some of them as mentors and motivational figures, but when it's all said and done, he/she is human just like I am. And I know if I work as hard as some of them have, I'll get where they are.

 

[MikeD]

I have flown with 3000hr airline pilots, military pilots, and all other types. And some of them have scared me more than anyone else I've trained flown. They usually get to slow and flare to high on short final.

That's weird. I mean, when I fly a 182 and get below 140 on landing approach, I start feeling like I'm going to stall.

And suprisingly they forget to do the checklist because they are used to having a FO doing it with them. Some of them have really great single pilot skills while others....not so much.

Nope, no FOs. Good and bad, I suppose.

But I have to admit that none of them looked down on me as the "little CFI Guy" or lowtimer. They were all open to my suggestions, critiques, and, demonstrations. All of them have been class acts so far.

Were you saying something little CFI guy? LOL

 

[KLB]

That's weird. I mean, when I fly a 182 and get below 140 on landing approach, I start feeling like I'm going to stall.



Nope, no FOs. Good and bad, I suppose.



Were you saying something little CFI guy? LOL

Hahahahaha

The last military guy I flew with bounced a landing so bad. I think he was in training out of Wichita Falls. The guy just would not flare. He said something to the effect of having to force (whatever aircraft he flew) down to the ground. "Well we got to flare in this bad boy!" LOL

 

[meritflyer]

I have flown with 3000hr airline pilots, military pilots, and all other types. And some of them have scared me more than anyone else I've trained flown. They usually get to slow and flare to high on short final. And suprisingly they forget to do the checklist because they are used to having a FO doing it with them. Some of them have really great single pilot skills while others....not so much.

But I have to admit that none of them looked down on me as the "little CFI Guy" or lowtimer. They were all open to my suggestions, critiques, and, demonstrations. All of them have been class acts so far.

(how did I know that would be the response from a young CFI)

 

[KLB]

I have flown with 3000hr airline pilots, military pilots, and all other types. And some of them have scared me more than anyone else I've trained flown. They usually get to slow and flare to high on short final. And suprisingly they forget to do the checklist because they are used to having a FO doing it with them. Some of them have really great single pilot skills while others....not so much.

But I have to admit that none of them looked down on me as the "little CFI Guy" or lowtimer. They were all open to my suggestions, critiques, and, demonstrations. All of them have been class acts so far.

(how did I know that would be the response from a young CFI)

You might consider me young (24), but I've been building some pretty good experience and have faced some pretty tough challenges....i.e. dealing with mostly foreign students, language barriers, and busy airspace. But I've been flying for almost six years and instructing for almost a year and I have to say that I have learned most as a CFI in the (almost) one year than I've learned in the previous five years hands down. Until you've done, you won't understand. And hopefully I will be moving to 135 shortly and will be saying thing about that experience in a year from now.

 

[meritflyer]

I have flown with 3000hr airline pilots, military pilots, and all other types. And some of them have scared me more than anyone else I've trained flown. They usually get to slow and flare to high on short final. And suprisingly they forget to do the checklist because they are used to having a FO doing it with them. Some of them have really great single pilot skills while others....not so much.

But I have to admit that none of them looked down on me as the "little CFI Guy" or lowtimer. They were all open to my suggestions, critiques, and, demonstrations. All of them have been class acts so far.



You might consider me young (24), but I've been building some pretty good experience and have faced some pretty tough challenges....i.e. dealing with mostly foreign students, language barriers, and busy airspace. But I've been flying for almost six years and instructing for almost a year and I have to say that I have learned most as a CFI in the (almost) one year than I've learned in the previous five years hands down. Until you've done, you won't understand. And hopefully I will be moving to 135 shortly and will be saying thing about that experience in a year from now.

I am not questioning your experience as a CFI. I think that people in general need to understand that a CFI isnt the only way to build quality time. Different things work for different people. Good luck with your 135 stuff.

 

[kellwolf]

I have flown with 3000hr airline pilots, military pilots, and all other types. And some of them have scared me more than anyone else I've trained flown. They usually get to slow and flare to high on short final. And suprisingly they forget to do the checklist because they are used to having a FO doing it with them. Some of them have really great single pilot skills while others....not so much.

But I have to admit that none of them looked down on me as the "little CFI Guy" or lowtimer. They were all open to my suggestions, critiques, and, demonstrations. All of them have been class acts so far.

(how did I know that would be the response from a young CFI)

Ya know, of you go back and read that, it sounds really condescending, especially from someone who is still working on their CFI. You ask for differing opinions, and then when you get one from someone with real world experience, you trash it. If you don't like the answers, don't ask the questions.

My bottom line has never been will the CFI know more about the CRJ than the guy with the type. That's a given seeing how the guy with the type has specific training on that aircraft. My beef has been with decision making and flying in the real world.

Now, another story from the CFI front (albeit not as young). There's a guy in my training class (two actually) with tons of CRJ experience. Both are ex-FlyI guys. Do I feel intimidated talking to them about the CRJ? Nope. I view them both as resources for me to learn from (which was one of the points KLB was trying to make). And to sorta add to the whole "the airline teaches you what they want you to know," I've had several guys in my class ask me to explain some things dealing with the hydraulic and fuel systems that they didn't understand in class. Not a big deal, but a couple of these guys went through the ATP class. So, in that case, the guys that should have known more went to the CFI that was busting his nose in the books for help. Just another example of how you can't generalize (like expecting certain responses from "young CFIs") when it comes to training.

 

[meritflyer]

I was not discrediting his experience whatsoever so dont try to spin it like I was. I barely have time to work on my CFI with my day job. I dont think people here, especially the CFI group, gives enough credit to people who take any other route.