meritflyer said:
I can agree with you and see your point of view. What is fall back experience? I dont think that a 1500 hour CFI that taught PPLs at the local FBO in C152s will have any 'fall back' intuition should his/her moment to shine come along.
If that's all the guy did, then I agree with you. It's up to the CFI to get out there, stay current, stay up to date and fly some bigger equipment. I had no problems doing any of that as a CFI. I had to work to get some of that, but I managed.
The guys that get the type rating show their employers they are trainable. The guys that get the RJ standards certificate show their employers they are willing to study hard and understand how their equipment works. Are they paying for a flight job? I would say no. They are merely paying for extra training. Will it help them get the job? Maybe.. maybe not. Its purely up to the person.
You're forgetting one very crucial bit of info: this airline job is the low time guy's first flying job. He hasn't shown that he's responsible with someone else's equipment, with other people's lives or any kind of ADM. Even the CFI that only taught PPL students has all of that proven when he walks in the door. It would be like handing someone just out of school with an MBA the reins to a Fortune 500 company (maybe exagerating a bit, but you get the point). Which leads into Brian's point about lowering wages. If it's the only job you can get (other than CFIing or towing banners) you'll take what you can get paid for it (or most guys will). What happens is, the low time guys go for that wage 'cause they want to do anything but instruct (and banner towing only pays about $10/hr). The high time guys stick to instructing a little longer and go where the money's at (either freight, corportate, fractional, whatever). Next thing you know, the FOs are all making McDonald's wages b/c that's what the low time guys are happy (yeah, HAPPY) to get. We've even got a real world example above of how PCL had to change the training stuff in order to draw in qualified pilots.
If a immature pilot comes in with 250 TT and a CRJ200 type thinking he's Maverick I am sure they will show him the door. Part 2, if a 500 hour pilot comes in with his type or systems training and shows he is dedicated to studying and becoming the best pilot by listening, learning, and asking questions he will no doubt be a good Captain one day.
I'm not saying that there aren't pilots out there with low time that CAN'T do it. Heck, one of my good friends is in my training class at PCL with 220 hours. He's a great guy, but I have no idea what kind of pilot he is. He's got an MD-90 (DC-9 whatever) type rating and he was good in systems class. Odds are he'll be good in the sim. My question is, is he gonna freeze up under real world stress. Remember, there is no "pause" button in the real plane, and no matter how real the sim appears, you always know you're not gonna die.
People want to get all worked up about the type, bridge, and jet transition courses. The person who shells out the bucks to do these classes must still interview, be proficient, and professional just like every other applicant. I do not have a type or advanced training and I sure as hell dont care about the guy sitting next to me whether he does or not. Its about being professional and proficient. A willingness to learn and conform to the employer's standards. So what is some guy/gal paid an extra $30K for an airline transition course or type rating. Does that make them a bad person or pilot? No. Have they crippled professional flying? No. Will I hold a grudge against them? No (unless they went to Gulfstream).
My problem is getting the interview IS the hardest part often times. So, they may not have paid for a job yet, but they sure as hell paid for an interview. I don't think it makes them a bad person necessarily, but I DO feel that it hurts the profession in the long run.
If they want to flush $30K down the drain for a CRJ type on their certificate or 100 hours in a Diamond.. its their choice.
So, is the transition program making them a more qualified pilot as you stated above, or are they flushing the money down the toilet? Can't be both.
Are they bad pilots for this?? Should they be cast out and stoned?? Did they just enact all airlines to require a CRJ type prior to employment like SWA??
Nope, but if every other guy comes into training with a type rating to get an edge over the competition, it won't be long before the airlines wise up and realize they can save some cash by requiring types. Remember, airline management is concerned with the well being of the company and the shareholders, NOT the pilots.
To think that all of these programs drive wages down may be true in theory but where is the evidence to support such a claim?
Honestly, there hasn't been enough time with these programs to have any evidence. For the most part, regional contracts last 5 years before they get re-negotiated. Wages cannot go down (or up) unless there is a LOA or a new contract. Which way have wages been going lately? Who is the future of the pilot group? Answers, down and the guys who will do anything to keep from instructing.
I have said before, I am in no way suggesting this training is the way to go however, people need to realize that pilots through the ALPA and market demand set the wages not Regional Airline Academy as portrayed. To think that a guy with a RJ standards course will drive the wages down in out in left field. Now, a guy paying to be a FO is another story. Advanced training does not drive down wages nor will it any time soon.
I still have to differ with you. Cool thing about the internet and life in general is people can disagree. Market forces seem to be controlling wages a hell of a lot more than ALPA (who seems to be beating a steady retreat on all fronts in that arena). Truth is, if airlines see a way to cut costs, they'll do it, especially on the labor front since that's one of the biggest costs. If you've got a 1000 hour pilot with experience and a 300 hour pilot that came out of a transition program, who do you think will work for the lower wage? Sometimes airlines don't necessarily want the most qualified, just the cheapest. After all, the captain's gonna train them anyway, right?
