Pilot whose gun discharged on plane is rehired

[meyers9163]

That's troubling, in my opinion. This pilot's termination was completely without just cause, and in light of the fact that DHS openly faulted the design of the holster (and it really is a horrible design), the termination was just flat-out egregious. I'd be curious to find out who the arbitrator was and whether the attorney USAPA used was experienced in trying discharge cases. This pilot should have at least received some back pay.

You do have a point there. That part threw me. With a wrongful termination I am surprised that there was zero back pay forced by the company.....

 

[meyers9163]

Is this guy your uncle or something?

You seem awfully worked up about all of this. If you can't discern the difference between mentioning it's a beautiful day in New York and holstering a gun, we need to talk about task management.

I'll tell you what, if I was sitting next to someone that discharged a gun next to me in a cockpit, unless it was to cap someone trying to take over an airplane, I'd be pissed. No ifs, ands or buts. And if said individual got a job back, he or she would be on my "no-fly" list (which totals 0 after 10+ years of 121).

So you've never made a mistake Polar? Not only in flying but in your personal life?

 

[derg]

Isn't that somewhat of a personal question?

 

[mikecweb]

So you've never made a mistake Polar? Not only in flying but in your personal life?

Wow.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

Okay- I admit this- the weapon has no safeties? I was unaware of that.

That's insane.

Who the hell carries a weapon like that?

It has internal safeties, it definitely won't fire unless the trigger is pulled.

And the trigger pull on it is 7 lbs, when I said significently less trigger pull I meant less than the DAO version of the USP Compact which you can buy in DAO without the LEM mod. Obviously the trigger pull would be higher than the DA/SA version in SA.

Buy the way, H&K still offers this pistol for purchase to airline pilots at a discount rate of $495(I think), which if anyone who flies 121 and is interested in buying a pistol I'd definitely recommend. You'd get the USP Compact in .40 with the LEM.

 

[KLB]

It has internal safeties, it definitely won't fire unless the trigger is pulled.

And the trigger pull on it is 7 lbs, when I said significently less trigger pull I meant less than the DAO version of the USP Compact which you can buy in DAO without the LEM mod. Obviously the trigger pull would be higher than the DA/SA version in SA.

Buy the way, H&K still offers this pistol for purchase to airline pilots at a discount rate of $495(I think), which if anyone who flies 121 and is interested in buying a pistol I'd definitely recommend. You'd get the USP Compact in .40 with the LEM.

Us 135 guys can get it also. I was thinking of buying one, but I'm a little concerned of it not having a safey on it even with the 7lb trigger pull. I'd never 100% trust a safety, but I prefer to have firearms with them anyways.

 

[Hootie]

I got mine when I was at Amf. You guys need to get over the safety thing. Spend some time getting familiar with your firearm of choice. The big bad no safety gun IS NOT going to explode in your hands just for looking at it.

 

[Polar742]

So you've never made a mistake Polar? Not only in flying but in your personal life?

I am just like anyone else. Of course, I've made a litany of mistakes.

However, they pale in comparison to discharging a gun in a cockpit. I'm no LEO, but I am well aware of safe firearms practice. I'm absolutely certain that this individual is completely sorry that he did this. We are lucky that the bullet just exited the aircraft into oblivion. Luckily it didn't ricochet, or strike someone on the ground.

As it was discussed earlier, except for this one incident, there are no accidental discharges of a FFDO weapon inside the cockpit. Makes one wonder how much was the holster and how much was the individual. Just like every incident can be explained by a series of systemic failures or individual errors, I'm sure the same can be put together with this incident.

But if you want specifics about my personal or professional life, I'd be more than happy to elaborate. There is very little that I won't talk about, because if someone else can learn from my screw ups, then my mistake can actually help someone else.

Actually, a quick search of my posts will reveal many mistakes in grammar, knowledge and what not. Luckily, we have a great body of knowledge on here that I can learn from and improve myself.

If you want personal mistakes, that's a beer per discussion.

 

[KLB]

I got mine when I was at Amf. You guys need to get over the safety thing. Spend some time getting familiar with your firearm of choice. The big bad no safety gun IS NOT going to explode in your hands just for looking at it.

Yeah I know...it's very whoosish of me. Maybe deep inside I'm using it as an excuse to not buy a firearm that I have no need except for the pure pleasure of shooting it. I'm calling my therapist.

 

[Firebird2XC]

I suspect it has an internal safety, like a Glock or Sig Sauer. What kind of holster was it? I've heard a couple of stories of issues with the locking system on Serpa's, and wondering if this is another of the same. I'm happy with mine, and would say it's a training issue.

Welp, apparently the weapon at hand is different from what I handled.

All the same, this guy doesn't need to be carrying on the job if he can't handle the weapon properly.

Personally, I think they should be carring a Beretta M9 like the military issues.

Ambidextrous safety, 15 round mag, reasonable accuracy and very light.

Oh, and you can get a holster that de-safeties the weapon on the draw.
Had one in Iraq. I could chamber a round with the weapon on safe, holster and thumb-latch it and forget it. If I needed to draw it in a hurry, it de-safetied on the way out and was ready to go.

That way you don't blow a hole in the side the airplane while you're holstering the weapon.

 

[MikeD]

Personally, I think they should be carring a Beretta M9 like the military issues.

Ambidextrous safety, 15 round mag, reasonable accuracy and very light.

.

Kind of large and cumbersome though. Plus it's a puny 9mm. A compact version would work though.

 

[Firebird2XC]

Kind of large and cumbersome though. Plus it's a puny 9mm. A compact version would work though.

Pack the right ammo, and a 9mm will do ya just fine. Not to mention that a 9mm is only a hair smaller than a .40.

How much stopping power do you need at a range of 5 feet?

 

[MikeD]

How much stopping power do you need at a range of 5 feet?

.45 cal

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

That would probably be the most effective. Something really slow with a lot of mass will stop someone a lot better than a very fast 9mm bullet. Kind of like the whole 7.62mm vs 5.56mm debate (kinetic energy vs velocity).

 

[PeterPilot]

Okay- I admit this- the weapon has no safeties? I was unaware of that.

That's insane.

Who the hell carries a weapon like that?

A person with poor judgment. In this case, a careless person with poor judgment.

 

[Ian_J]

A person with poor judgment. In this case, a careless person with poor judgment.

A buddy of mine is a border protection agent and carries a handgun with no safety. A Sig p229.

 

[meyers9163]

Isn't that somewhat of a personal question?

Only if you take it that away.... Personal doesnt mean anything more then outside of the professional world we are talking. Now if you take it that away Doug, that's the way you decided to take it! I believe at the end of the day no one on here can say they have never made a mistake or an error.... Flying or in some other regards with their personal life (which doesnt mean a relationship but rather their life outside of the plane)...

 

[meyers9163]

If you want personal mistakes, that's a beer per discussion.

FO regional pay remember ! But the point was, he made a mistake.... He's back and its great to see him back. From talking to some of the "guys" who knew this man it sounds like he's a great man... And its just a good story to hear about.... Unfortunately, for good or for worse, the truth of the story will never be given and thus we are left for speculation I guess you can say.....

But at the end of the day, I would only hope that if this is the only mitake this man has made; his job would be something he can keep secured.... Not only for his sake but for his family and those whom also count on the man...

 

[Guy]

Moot point. His ability to handle an airplane has not been in question, nor has adequate reason to question it arisen.

Some folks just aren't meant to carry firearms. He, apparently, is one of them.

You meant to say “unrelated”, not “moot”, which has a different meaning. However, regardless of which word you meant to say, you’re wrong. Carelessness is a trait.

 

[Firebird2XC]

You meant to say “unrelated”, not “moot”, which has a different meaning. However, regardless of which word you meant to say, you’re wrong. Carelessness is a trait.

It's moot in regards to this conversation.

And now, carelessness is not a universal trait. Sometimes people are careless because they fail to understand what they're dealing with.

Assuming that someone can't handle an airplane properly because they mishandle a firearm isn't really sound logic.