Pilot whose gun discharged on plane is rehired

[Guy]

He was careless, and could have killed someone.

Now he will just be flying airplanes where carelessness is unimportant?

 

[granlistillo]

As in a rod, reel, and going fishing... You cast it Although I suppose you are right, there's no past tense for the word... Just cast...

Great word! Very Biblical-at least the King James Version. Reminds of Shawshank redemption:
"I will cast you down with the sodomites, you will do the hardest time there is."

 

[Firebird2XC]

Now he will just be flying airplanes where carelessness is unimportant?

Moot point. His ability to handle an airplane has not been in question, nor has adequate reason to question it arisen.

Some folks just aren't meant to carry firearms. He, apparently, is one of them.

 

[Firebird2XC]

Have you fired a regular H&K USP Compact (its public knowledge what kind of pistol is used, not SSI) or have you fired the LEM version which has a significently lighter trigger pull and no external safeties?

Okay- I admit this- the weapon has no safeties? I was unaware of that.

That's insane.

Who the hell carries a weapon like that?

 

[meyers9163]

Who the hell carries a weapon like that?

I have no clue about this weapon or any to be honest. But I can only assume hundrens of pilots out there are carrying this exact weapon.....

 

[MikeD]

Okay- I admit this- the weapon has no safeties? I was unaware of that.

That's insane.

Who the hell carries a weapon like that?

Doesn't really need one. The insanely long trigger pull acts as a quasi safety. IIRC, Glocks don't have external safeties either.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

Doesn't really need one. The insanely long trigger pull acts as a quasi safety. IIRC, Glocks don't have external safeties either.

Doesn't it have a grip and trigger safety... where you pretty much have to be holding the weapon and wanting to fire it for it to work?

 

[MDPilot]

Doesn't it have a grip and trigger safety... where you pretty much have to be holding the weapon and wanting to fire it for it to work?

No grip safety, pull trigger it fires, just like a revolver.

 

[Fins Up]

From what I understand, that guy violated FFDO SOP, and the sterile cockpit environment...and yet he was giving his job back. That's just freakin' great!

 

[meyers9163]

From what I understand, that guy violated FFDO SOP, and the sterile cockpit environment...and yet he was giving his job back. That's just freakin' great!

I dont know what FFDO SOP are in details... However Sterile Cockpit? Are you joking me? Mr Captain Sully even the day his bird went down under 10,000' mentioned how it was a beautiful day there in New York..... I would wager to say nearly 90% plus of all airline pilots at some point have broken sterile cockpit....

If the arbitrator had a leg to stand on, and could prevent this man from working again, he would have not gotten his job back. However there had to be more then enough evidence to REVERSE the companies decision to let him go.... And apparently there was just that, enough evidence to over turn the companies poor, knee jerk reaction to fire him; and thus he's back flying where he belongs.....

I cant believe so many people want this man to hang for what amount to an accident... Lack of any intention etc....

 

[SpiceWeasel]

I dont know what FFDO SOP are in details... However Sterile Cockpit? Are you joking me? Mr Captain Sully even the day his bird went down under 10,000' mentioned how it was a beautiful day there in New York..... I would wager to say nearly 90% plus of all airline pilots at some point have broken sterile cockpit....

If the arbitrator had a leg to stand on, and could prevent this man from working again, he would have not gotten his job back. However there had to be more then enough evidence to REVERSE the companies decision to let him go.... And apparently there was just that, enough evidence to over turn the companies poor, knee jerk reaction to fire him; and thus he's back flying where he belongs.....

I cant believe so many people want this man to hang for what amount to an accident... Lack of any intention etc....

Unions have the power to get peoples jobs back for incredibly stupid stunts.... doesn't mean that him getting his job back was the right thing.

I think finding out why he's banned from carrying a firearm would answer whether him getting his job back was justified...

 

[meyers9163]

Unions have the power to get peoples jobs back for incredibly stupid stunts.... doesn't mean that him getting his job back was the right thing.

I think finding out why he's banned from carrying a firearm would answer whether him getting his job back was justified...

Where did you get he's banned from carrying a firearm? All I saw was he's not allowed to carry in the cockpit again? I doubt they can take his right to bare arms away from the man for this based on an arbitrators ruling....

 

[MDPilot]

I think finding out why he's banned from carrying a firearm would answer whether him getting his job back was justified...

Unfortunately you're not going to find that out on a public message board. Sorry

Edit. True, he's not going to be an FFDO anymore, banning him from firearms is a whole 'nother thing.

 

[NickH]

Okay- I admit this- the weapon has no safeties? I was unaware of that.

I suspect it has an internal safety, like a Glock or Sig Sauer. What kind of holster was it? I've heard a couple of stories of issues with the locking system on Serpa's, and wondering if this is another of the same. I'm happy with mine, and would say it's a training issue.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

Where did you get he's banned from carrying a firearm? All I saw was he's not allowed to carry in the cockpit again? I doubt they can take his right to bare arms away from the man for this based on an arbitrators ruling....

Unfortunately you're not going to find that out on a public message board. Sorry

Edit. True, he's not going to be an FFDO anymore, banning him from firearms is a whole 'nother thing.

For this discussion, I didn't mean to imply that he was banned outside of the cockpit.... in fact, I don't care what happens outside of the cockpit; it matters only why he's banned from carrying in the cockpit.

As far as finding out - I have no dog in this fight. I am only trying to help out meyer's argument about him keeping his job. I feel that allowing a firearm to discharge in the cockpit is careless no matter how crappy the holster is - and this is because I know what FFDOs do with their weapons up front.....

That is why I posed the question about "why was the gun not secured" during an approach phase of flight; let alone any phase of flight....

Just as a frame of reference, and not to belittle, I am wondering, meyer, if you have any 121 experience? Have you seen FFDOs handle weapons?

 

[meyers9163]

Just as a frame of reference, and not to belittle, I am wondering, meyer, if you have any 121 experience? Have you seen FFDOs handle weapons?

Last 2 years... I've viewed them do it many different ways... I've had some strap on before, some after take off, some after push back and many ways. I have never gone through the program and thus have no clue what their rules are and nor do I really care. I figure as long as its by them and appears to be secured I'm ok with it. As long as they are not playing with it and showing it off (which I dont think any of them would do, as part of their position) I dont care what they do with it.....

 

[Hootie]

A double action firearm such as the H&K does not just accidentally discharge.

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

No, and the LEM trigger is a different animal. The best way I can describe it is, DA first shot, and on repeat shots if you allow the trigger full return (take your finger off) It will once again act as a DA.. There is no mechanical saftey like what you find on something like a 1911. Remember LEM is the law enforcement trigger, and is designed to be ready at all times.

If yuo continue to cycle the trigger, it remains a SA, like any other semi auto.. so shooting it can be a bit tricky at first. They also kind of suck, because H&K used their own proprietary accessory rail up front, so if you want a light, laser or otherwise you have to use an H&K licensed unit, or get an adapter(which won't fit in most holsters) The p2000 uses the now mostly standard rail system, and will take most lights.

 

[Polar742]

I dont know what FFDO SOP are in details... However Sterile Cockpit? Are you joking me? Mr Captain Sully even the day his bird went down under 10,000' mentioned how it was a beautiful day there in New York..... I would wager to say nearly 90% plus of all airline pilots at some point have broken sterile cockpit....

Is this guy your uncle or something?

You seem awfully worked up about all of this. If you can't discern the difference between mentioning it's a beautiful day in New York and holstering a gun, we need to talk about task management.

I'll tell you what, if I was sitting next to someone that discharged a gun next to me in a cockpit, unless it was to cap someone trying to take over an airplane, I'd be pissed. No ifs, ands or buts. And if said individual got a job back, he or she would be on my "no-fly" list (which totals 0 after 10+ years of 121).

You fail on judgment.

This guy was also trained on guns too:

[YT]p1_EoRZOVes[/YT]

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Great news indeed after a wrongful termination and monday quarterbacking by many out there whom casted him under the bus! Nicely done USAPA (Sorry Todd, but its a win at the end of the day for a pilot and thus the congrats to USAPA as well)....

Congrats to USAPA? Hardly. I said from the beginning that it was a blatantly ridiculous termination, and I expected him to be back in short order. I'm surprised it took this long, frankly. What I find interesting is this:

The reinstatement does not include back pay.

That's troubling, in my opinion. This pilot's termination was completely without just cause, and in light of the fact that DHS openly faulted the design of the holster (and it really is a horrible design), the termination was just flat-out egregious. I'd be curious to find out who the arbitrator was and whether the attorney USAPA used was experienced in trying discharge cases. This pilot should have at least received some back pay.