Pilot Career Losing Luster

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The honest answer is that it's not what we thought it would be!



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Funny, engineering isn't what I thought it would be either. Guess I should start lowering my standards.
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It goes something like this....I could listen to those who say "keep your day job and fly on the side for fun" but then I would never truly know for myself. I would live with regret for not at least trying it for myself. I used to think that money brough happiness (well maybe it still does to some extent
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) but now days I'd rather be poor doing something I love than to be rich and hate my current job.

At any rate, keep up these threads....hopefully they'll scare people away and open more slots for me, R2F, sbe, and all the others on this sight who still have dreams of a brighter future.
 
I think if you look at it as a warning about immersing yourself so deeply into a profession, that when things get bad you find yourself wanting to swallow a 9mm.

I think if you look at professional aviation and compare it to the changing of the seasons, you'll probably get a much better 'balanced' view of the situation.

The glossy ads in Flying magazine always show "springtime".

Some of the "Old Hands" talk about how cold "winter" is and all of the snow storms.

When you're moving up in the world of aviation, it's pure "summer", or when you're on the bottom of a seniority list of a company that's in bankruptcy, you get your first "fall" chill.

I hate to use the 'cyclical' word again, but professional aviation definitely goes thru seasons. Now, it's definetely winter, but there's a spring thaw somewhere around the corner. It might be a few quarters or a few years, but as long as you hope for spring, but dress for winter, you're going to be alright.

A lot of folks get out of flight school with fresh airmen's certificates, shorts and flipflops only to realize that it's a cold winter and are embittered because the "old geezers" that recommended wearing a jacket and taking a pair of jeans along.

In a lot of ways, the current "season" can be beneficial. The people that threw a bunch of money to become a glamorous airline pilot are getting weeded out whereas the people that have a true passion for the business have knocked over a barrel, threw some old newspapers in and prepared a fire to survive until it warms up.

That's my fourth weird post today, I think I'd better eat something.
 
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A lot of folks get out of flight school with fresh airmen's certificates, shorts and flipflops only to realize that it's a cold winter and are embittered because the "old geezers" that recommended wearing a jacket and taking a pair of jeans along.

In a lot of ways, the current "season" can be beneficial. The people that threw a bunch of money to become a glamorous airline pilot are getting weeded out whereas the people that have a true passion for the business have knocked over a barrel, threw some old newspapers in and prepared a fire to survive until it warms up.

That's my fourth weird post today, I think I'd better eat something.


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I don't think that's weird at all Doug. Very well said and I agree with you 100%, I agree with your whole post 100%.

I graduated with a BA in Graphic Design. My first job out of school was working for a nationally-distributed magazine. I was hired as a 'production assistant' aka doing design work. However, I was allowed to touch only the simplest of ads (basically those that had to have one sentence of type changed from issue to issue) and instead spent 90% of my time doing data entry and answering phones. Which included dealing with irate advertisers and crazy subscribers (that couldn't figure out that our office was NOT the subscription office). My boss was neurotic and screamed a whole stream of 4 letter words at me because I didn't go to the basement to let her know the UPS man had arrived one day. I drove close to 50 miles each way daily to this position, and of course it was entry level pay (which in my field is not much).
I spent 5 long years there just listening to everyone who told me "it's just a job, enjoy your time outside of work, it'll get better". The last 2 years I went without a raise, and no change in my responsibilities, and it was time to leave. But what the hell was I going to put in my portfolio? They'd let me do precious little design work so I had virtually nothing. And with 5 years' experience, you can't put your college projects back in there. I set out to do freelance work and actually did a few jobs pro-bono just to be able to have something cool and innovative to show to prospective employers. Actually built up a nice side business and the portfolio, while a bit thin, was at least competitive with my peers'.

Now I'm approaching my 2nd anniversary at my current place of employment. I like the work here and I got a quick promotion to a senior position (and an office), although the pay is still average and the threat of layoffs occasionally floats through the office. As long as I can deal with the corporate politics, the 23 year old who is under me but nevertheless acts like my manager (she just sent me an email earlier today telling me what 'my assignment' was this afternoon), the projects that required staying a solid 40 hours in the office *no sleep* surviving on Red Bull, with the only break being a quick sneak out after the first 8 hours for an instrument lesson, well it's great. I will say my portfolio now looks FANTASTIC.

But in any event, every field has its bullsh*t, the crap jobs and the beginning low pay (unless you're entering into one of a few chosen fields, none of which was mine). My sis was an advertising major, graduated with honors from one of the top journalism schools in the country and she interviewed with (large) ad agencies upon graduation that offered her 15-18K to start. And that isn't take home pay either.

I've been through rough times. I'm willing to stick it out. I don't give up easily, and I'm stubborn as hell. I'm not giving up. And my options are always open. If I don't make it I'll teach on the side, and I'll be perfectly happy!
 
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I hate to use the 'cyclical' word again, but professional aviation definitely goes thru seasons. Now, it's definetely winter, but there's a spring thaw somewhere around the corner. It might be a few quarters or a few years, but as long as you hope for spring, but dress for winter, you're going to be alright.

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Doug - that is the very BEST description of ... well,... just about any career, but specifically - aviation.

Thanks.

(and no, I'm not blowing sunshine up the webmasters....mouse
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- I liked the analogy).

The thing that I have issues with (obviously) is that all we "wannabe's" have been hearing from some of you "old-timers" lately - is that it's ALL "winter" ALL the time - and frankly, if that's the case - I'd have to call B.S. - or seriously question the mental stability of someone who would stay in it if that were true.

ANother thing I have an issue with is that when we "wannabe's" say "We HEAR YOU - but, we still want to see for ourselves..." - we get beat in the head with whatever chip is on the persons shoulder at that moment.

We do hear what you say!

We do believe that there are going to be rough times.

And believe me - just like braidkid said - we are putting our parkas in our baggage and will prepare ourselves for the cold times that may or may not be along the route in our particular journeys.

I, for one, do feel bad for the guys that are in the thick of it right now having to put up with all the bad times that the airline industry is experiencing. Beleive me when I say that.

But, to continually be beat over the head with gloom and doom - well - again, I keep falling back to "WHY ARE YOU STILL DOING IT??"..

I'd really like to say THANK YOU for the words of advice, but if your advice is "don't do it" - go bark up another tree. Your experiences are YOURS. We can learn from your mistakes, but when we see someone who seems to keep making the same mistakes over and over - we tend not to want to listen to that person anymore.

I could go on, but I'll leave this particular post there.

R2F
 
If I could make a billboard, I'd say "Do you want to be an airline pilot or do you want to become an airline pilot?"

If you want to become an airline pilot, fantastic! Enjoy the adventure. Jump at any and every opportunity and glean all the experiences you can.

I can't remember if I already made the distinction between 'being an airline pilot' and 'becoming an airline pilot' but let me know and I'll re-explain.
 
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If you want to become an airline pilot, fantastic! Enjoy the adventure. Jump at any and every opportunity and glean all the experiences you can.

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Absolutely.

It's the same as the difference between being a rider or being a horsewoman. I'd take the latter anyday. And you're never really there, because you never stop learning and you never reach the top. 'Tis the journey that counts.
 
Actually, I realized over the last trip that my brain is trying to work on becoming a captain.

I've started to notice more qualities in the good guys that I want to encompass and qualities in the 'bad' guys that I'd like to avoid.

But then I guess it's all subjective.
 
Wow very interesting thread!

A300Capt thanks for the response... if depressing; I am one of those kids.

I am absouletely loving the road to becoming whatever I choose to become (whatever that is).
 
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Actually, I realized over the last trip that my brain is trying to work on becoming a captain.


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Doug, dont you think you should try to be a 767 FO first?
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I just mean I'm starting to pay attention how captains interact with co pilots and flight attendants.

But, of course, my seniority being what it is, I'll have plenty of SIC when upgrade comes around next millenia!
 
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when upgrade comes around next millenia!

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'Ya know, for $50 .. ok for you $20 ... bucks a head I could make upgrade time come a little faster!
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Seriously JUST KIDDING..
 
Doug, A-300: Interesting views from those who have been there. Flying has become my second "adventure career" and from what I can see nothing really changes. You bust your behind to get there, and at a certain point, the luster wears off and it's just a job. I know that flying is uniquely its own profession (oddly unique to be more accurate) and it may not be right to compare it to other careers, but I look back on the times that I got down on my old profession, and in hindsight, I wonder what I was down about. It was cray, I was getting paid by the government to travel the country and jump out of planes - and that was all I had to do! But, I got wrapped up in the negatives such as no time to got to weddings, funerals, family functions, and not a lot of money. Looking back, I really didn't miss much of that stuff, and the things I did miss were by choice because I thought I needed the overtime dollars. I know it's always easy to forget about the hard times in hindsight, but it's just as easy to forget about how good we have it at the moment. I guess I learned a lot from leaving my old career - especially how to look at the big positives before the negatives. But, that's easy enough for me to say having not yet been an airline pilot.

"Life is just every day life no matter where you go. And if you want only one thing in life you'll find it to be a dissapointment. It's the little things that count..." Gus MCrae
 
Interesting thread...

I would do it all over again in a heartbeat...

I work for the same company as A300capt and I understand some of his frustration...it ain't no Southwest airlines.

I must admit, however, I have it very easy and I've used (abused) the system to make it so. My number is 868 out of 2500 or so guys and I've stayed as an F/O to maintain my seniority. With seniority, I get my choice of schedules and equipment. I work about 10 days a month and fly the easiest trips. I block about 10 hours a month and get paid for 75 hours. My hourly rate is nearly $130/hr. So....

Would I do it again...heck yeah. Would I play the seniority game to get a great lifestyle...heck yeah. Some guys need to make the big bucks to pay for a family or to maintain a lifestyle and so are willing to be junior capts or F/O's. Being junior always sucks...

A300capt...if you say "NO, I wouldn't do this again", then what would you do different and how would you make a living that pays this much doing something else?
 
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But, to continually be beat over the head with gloom and doom - well - again, I keep falling back to "WHY ARE YOU STILL DOING IT??"..


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I like to think of it as the voice of experience to balance out those glossy, overpriced, pilot mill ads that make it all seem like a bed of roses.
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Why do I do it? That's easy! The money and time off to enjoy it with my family and friends! Flying now affords me and my family the opportunity to live in a nice quiet upscale community and private school for my little girl. As long as I remain healthy, it'll hopefully provide a nice retirement at age 60.

Will I miss the flying and 2am wake-up calls? The all nighters to the East or West coast and back? The constant battles with crew scheduling, maintenance, contingency, dispatch, catering, hotel clerks, FAA, TSA, ATC and being up for 24+ hrs on the back side of the clock while trying to shoot an ILS to mins? Will I miss all that? Not for a second!

For the most part, the journey and the people I have met along the way have been the most rewarding part of my career. I wouldn't trade that for anything. The actual flying part is a distant second. When I was coming up through the ranks, older guys would tell me the same thing yet I didn't comprehend what they were telling me. It was all about the airplane to me. Now I understand where they were coming from and what's really most important.

What I hear most on this board and others are the newbies and wannabes (for lack of better terms) talking about just the physical part of flying the airplane and how cool that must be strapping into that jet. Nothing wrong with that and I was the same way in the beginning. The problem is that I back then, and they now, just focused on that part at the exclusion of every other aspect of the job.

Not to sound too presumptuous but there's much more to getting a big jet off the ground then just pulling back on the stick. That's the easy part. Right now, you're probably focused 95% on just the physical part of flying the airplane and 5% on other factors. That is, no doubt, the fun part and what drives most of us to pursue this career. Unfortunately, at my level of the game, it's more like 5% on just flying the airplane and 95% spent on logistical, legal, managerial and interpersonal problem solving issues before, during after getting to the airplane.

My brother is a doctor. It's not like the Marcus Welby tv series. He spends most of his time dealing with HMO's, insurance companies, legal dept and office politics rather than actually practicing medicine. That's not the same picture he painted while still in med school with talk of filling his day simply just healing the sick and injured without any glorious thoughts of making big money. It was the work that counted.

My brother told me many years ago while on a ski trip that he came upon a person who had fallen off their snow skies and twisted or broke an ankle. Being a newly minted doctor my brother stopped to see if he could offer any kind of assistance. After he introduced himself the guy's friend, standing near by, said something to the effect of, "I hope you have good mal-practice insurance if you hurt him more than he already is.." While this was said in jest, my brother said he realized right then and there that he had to be very careful about offering and medical assistance to someone. In effect, he had to worry and base his decisions on legal issue above medical ones (CYA!). He had to start worrying about other factors other than just practicing medicine. It's unfortunate because my brother is a very gifted physician and got into that field for all the right reasons. I've seen his attitude change over the years.

Nothing wrong with pursuing your dreams. Just be very careful what you wish for..

BTW, Doug...if I ever make it to PHX. I'll take you up on that drink..I'll buy.
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What I hear most on this board and others are the newbies and wannabes (for lack of better terms) talking about just the physical part of flying the airplane and how cool that must be strapping into that jet. Nothing wrong with that and I was the same way in the beginning. The problem is that I back then, and they now, just focused on that part at the exclusion of every other aspect of the job.

BTW, Doug...if I ever make it to PHX. I'll take you up on that drink..I'll buy.
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About the same for the military. As a pilot in the USAF, flying is truly secondary to all your various ground jobs in the squadron/group/wing etc. Then there's all the "career broadening" crap like non-flying staff tours, Squadron Officers School and other management schools....everything that's designed to make you a "well-rounded military officer"; what you're expected to be, not just a pilot.

Makes it hard to exist sometimes with the extra BS there is.
 
A300 - THANK YOU for your response!!

While I seem to be the "spokesman" for the "wannabe" group and as a result, seem to be the one that's always firing back at the guys in the know when they preach the down side, it's posts like yours above that brings it all into perspective.

(okay, so that was one hell of a run-on sentence.
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With some on this site, it's nothing BUT gloom and doom. That's where I have to wave the B.S. flag.

While I feel sometimes it's the equivilent of pulling teeth to get you guys to share what you LIKE about your profession, in the end - when you finally do offer us nuggets of good along with the bad - it's worth it.

Again - thank you!!

The thing is, we know it's not all roses, violins, "snazzy" uniforms and F/A's, five-star hotels and prestige.

We KNOW this.

And believe me - in the past two years - none of us have blinders on thanks to being hit in the face over and over again with the reality that is this profession - thanks to posters on this site. One of the reasons we come back again, and again, and again, and...... well, you get the picture.
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While I seem to be the "spokesman" for the "wannabe" group and as a result, seem to be the one that's always firing back at the guys in the know when they preach the down side, it's posts like yours above that brings it all into perspective.


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Just got back from a round trip flight to KEWR (Newark) where we shot an ILS to near mins last night. Halfway through the approach I was actually thinking about this thread (guess my ADD was kickin' in
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There are many "ups" (no pun intended) to the profession along with the "downs". Having a great f/o you get along with and can joke around with during the long flight plus someone you can count on during tough situations makes the flight much more enjoyable.

I had one of those tough nights a couple months ago going into EWR when we lost the major hyd system in the A300. Had to pump the gear down, well,...actually had the jumpseater do it. After all, I could've broken a nail or got a paper cut or something really serious like that! We then started having problems with one of the engines and almost had to shut it down in-flight. The eng driven hyd pump had come apart and caused some engine damage (fortunately, no fire). Things got very busy and had we shut the engine down, we'd have been down to one engine, one minor hyd system causing flap/slat problems, no autopilots, unable to retract the gear (nose wheel steering was also gone) and having to shoot an IFR approach.

Things all worked out just fine and I had a very good f/o who performed flawlessly throughout the emergency. BTW, it was his first flight in the airplane after his IOE line check. He also happens to be a GA FAA designee and one of the nices guys I've had the pleasure of flying with at UPS.

The best part of my job is when we begin push back to start the flight until touching down at our destination. I enjoy watching mother nature's T'storms over the midwest while enroute (from a safe distance of course
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). The light shows produced by them are awe inspiring and something "groundpounders" never get to see. I've seen the Northern lights and glaciers in Alaska. Flying into Salt Lake City on a clear night during the winter with the snow capped peaks east of the city is something I'll never get tired of seeing.

Flying 400,000lbs of aluminum around at 500mph and occasionally getting a "kisser" landing or successfully completing a tough approach is very satisfying and keeps the job challenging and interesting. I wish we were able to spend time with future pilots and show them the plane, answer their questions and allow them to jumpseat. Unfortunately, 9/11 doesn't allow any of that. We use to give little tours while at the gateway and I always enjoyed talking to people about flying. Nowadays, it's a hassle for even me to get to the airplane, let alone, a "civilian" or some starry eyed kids who just want to take a look and ask questions.

I recently asked my daughter (she's 8..going on 15!) if she was interested in becoming an airline pilot? Her response, "No, it's too boring." Hmmm...kids!
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we lost the major hyd system in the A300. Had to pump the gear down, well,...actually had the jumpseater do it. After all, I could've broken a nail or got a paper cut or something really serious like that!

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. I wish we were able to spend time with future pilots and show them the plane, answer their questions and allow them to jumpseat.

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Me too because that is something I would most definitely enjoy!!

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Unfortunately, 9/11 doesn't allow any of that.

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Understood.

And, I believe, a major source of discontent throughout the ranks in aviaton. Things just changed too much - for the worst - after 9/11.

While the overall prinicpal of aviation - flying the aircraft and the view from up there - haven't changed - the political landscape has.... and that sucks.

Thanks for the FANTASTIC reply!! Hope we didn't cause you to go missed on your ILS last night.
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No big deal in a 172 or PA28-161, but I'd imagine that would burn quite a bit of fuel in an A300.
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R2F
 
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Honestly, I kinda hope some of the weaker people start losing hope....more jobs available for me!!!



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I want to say 1 thing. Yipee!!!
Although it is sad that many pilots are loosing interest in the aviation field. When I decided to go into the aviation field at 12 I was worried for competition. I was worried that there would not be enough room for me to be hired on new airlines.
But since the layoffs many pilots are not coming back, and the pilots in training are either quiting, or choosing other careers. That means more jobs for us, more money, better benefits.
Even though I still have 3 more years of college, and dont even have my PPL. So I guess by that time there will be plenty of positions open for guys like me.
 
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