Phraseology Nazis

The thing I hate about guys with "pet peeves" about phraseology is they have a certain thing that gets their goat but they make mistakes all the time as well. If I'm EVER corrected in the cockpit that person better speak as if there were reading from the 7110.65. Yeah it may be annoying to you but try flying into an uncontrolled airport you've never been to in a jet and you see TCAS targets but no one is talking. I don't care if it is or isn't in the AIM I'm going to ask in one form or fashion if there is any traffic. That might chap your ass if you've been in the pattern bombing around in a 172 for the past hour but I don't want to rely on sugar pop making his "left final" call I want the big picture on where the traffic is so I can plan accordingly. Relying on the AIM to dictate how you fly is ridiculous. It's a guide and it's a great resource but some people think that if it's not in the AIM you can't do it.
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Problem with this one is that in my experience the guys usually saying "Anyone in the pattern please advise" are almost allways the guys that are not looking out the window. They are the guys that cut you off on final, pull out in front of you on the runway when you are landing, dropping into the pattern from above in their Bonanza's, snaking your position at the bars and yelling at you for doing ballerina spins as they burn you on to the runway. I have been flying way to long out of an uncontrolled field and the reason why this phrase is so irritating to people is for the simple reason that you cannot expect everyone to transmit at once "here I am!". Do you expect everyone in the pattern (an average of 4 at anyone time where I fly out of) to somehow, in an orderly fashion, transmit their position. That is completely unrealistic. I fly a Cessna 421 into this airport fairly often and while not quite as fast as a jet, it is never a problem to get the big picture of the traffic pattern by using my windows and slowing down. It should not matter even if no else in the pattern has a radio, after all they are not required. They do help but all to often pilots rely on their radio way to much and just assume (ass u me) that everyone else has one, is using it and has the switch on and volume up. The primary method for traffic avoidance should me see and avoid. I cant tell you how many times I have had the guy saying the above and just barreling onto the runway whithout even looking and then yelling at the guy he just cut off on final about not making a call turning final. This is unbelievable! but it happens way to often.

It is unfortunate that with "modern" flight training, in most cases people have been trained to use their radio like a crutch.

And on another note, "the active" has no place at an uncontrolled field. Most pilots, i'd say 75% think that one of the runways somehow becomes the "active" just because the last pilot decided to use it. The lemmings all follow no matter what the wind direction is. If their is an ASOS, how about listening to it. If not the proper phraseology is check the sock.:)

No offense, just opened up a sore spot with me on that one.
 
C-182 flyer said:
It seems that the people who get worked up are mostly low time pilots with something to prove, while the professionals do not care as much. Strange.
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And this statement is from a new member of JC. What are WE showing the students, junior pilots, and others wanting to move up?

Really, a Fishfinder? Come on, the traffic advisory is for you, the pilot. Designed to give you, the pilot, a heads up and an reason to get your eyes out of the cockpit. If it weren't a safety/important issue, ATC would just ask, "Do you have TCAS?". If you said, "Rajahhhh" then ATC would not provide ANY trafic advisories because (apparently) your TCAS does it all.

OR better yet, why not have a TCAS equipment code that we use to file? That way ATC doesn't even have to ask if we're equipped, they can just run two equipped aircraft in close proximity because we have "fishfinders".

Then when we fly into an uncontrolled/familiar airport in our jets we can just start saying, "Any fish in the area please advise". I like this idea!
 
seagull said:
Over the radio correction is nuts, but using the correct phraseology is important, particularly if you ever fly outside the U.S.
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Bingo !!

I'll second and third this comment. The Americans who come to Emirates have very poor radio discipline in general. Why do I have to teach 4, 5, and 6 thousand hour pilots how to make a proper position report :banghead:.


Typhoonpilot
 
typhoonpilot said:
Bingo !!

I'll second and third this comment. The Americans who come to Emirates have very poor radio discipline in general. Why do I have to teach 4, 5, and 6 thousand hour pilots how to make a proper position report :banghead:.
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I will also add the the most experienced pilots on this thread are advocating PROPER use of the radio. American pilot phraseology is a, on average, pathetic and very unprofessional. It is sad that a pilot from a developing world nation often sounds better on the radio, through their broken english, than a U.S. pilot does in the International environment.
 
seagull said:
I will also add the the most experienced pilots on this thread are advocating PROPER use of the radio. American pilot phraseology is a, on average, pathetic and very unprofessional. It is sad that a pilot from a developing world nation often sounds better on the radio, through their broken english, than a U.S. pilot does in the International environment.
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Even though I have been somewhat sarcastic in this thread, I agree with your assessment 100%. When communicating in environments outside the normal US style environment, any non-standard phraseology ties up bandwidth since the controllers are trained a certain way. If they don't hear it that way, you're going to repeat it until you get it correct. Even HF (we don't have CPDLC - yea us!) with US radio operators is sketchy if you don't speak correctly.

We adapt in the NE corridor during rush hours, but over seas, a non-standard radio transmission means you're doing it over.

As I think on it, we use other pilot's radio transmissions our selves to see who's ahead, behind, above and below us. If the pilots listening to us transmit only know ICAO style reports, our American-style reports are lost on them, thus removing a piece of the SA puzzle from their cockpit.

$4.12 of my .02 RMB
 
Polar742 said:
Even though I have been somewhat sarcastic in this thread, I agree with your assessment 100%. When communicating in environments outside the normal US style environment, any non-standard phraseology ties up bandwidth since the controllers are trained a certain way. If they don't hear it that way, you're going to repeat it until you get it correct. Even HF (we don't have CPDLC - yea us!) with US radio operators is sketchy if you don't speak correctly.
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Wish it were like this here. I would love to hear a controller's response to "Got 'em on the fishfinder" or "Lookin"" be something like, "Please confirm, Does that mean Traffic in Sight or Negative Contact"?
 
seagull said:
I will also add the the most experienced pilots on this thread are advocating PROPER use of the radio. American pilot phraseology is a, on average, pathetic and very unprofessional. It is sad that a pilot from a developing world nation often sounds better on the radio, through their broken english, than a U.S. pilot does in the International environment.
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If the world's aviation language was German, I would guess the transmissions in the US would be very proper and professional and in Germany it would be full of slang.
 
BrewMaster said:
If the world's aviation language was German, I would guess the transmissions in the US would be very proper and professional and in Germany it would be full of slang.
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It is true. Being from the U.S., I found that the language use in the U.K. took some getting used to, as the controllers there use some local slang also, as do other English speaking country controllers. Things like "climb level three hundred" can be confusing at first. Made worse as in the U.S., many use the word "level" to mean "maintaining", whereas the rest of the World "level" pretty much ALWAYS means "Flight Level".
 
typhoonpilot said:
Bingo !!

I'll second and third this comment. The Americans who come to Emirates have very poor radio discipline in general. Why do I have to teach 4, 5, and 6 thousand hour pilots how to make a proper position report :banghead:.


Typhoonpilot
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Really? Depending on your FMS all you've got to do is just read it.

Funny thing is that when I flew the 727, a lot of guys had never been into uncontrolled fields before so I'd have to do all of the non-towered radio work.

"Monrooooooooe traffic, Delta 123, a 727, on an extended downwind for...."
 
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