Personal SR22 Pilot

[mshunter]

This has gone from a good informational thread to just a disgusting cross section of what's wrong with this industry.

If pilots don't think they're worth appropriate pay and QOL, how do we convince those in charge of pay that we're worth it?

-mini

Started by this

Lets be honest you can offer 30 and I am someone will take it.

I am actually kinda upset/disgusted by what some people think they are worth. Come on people, did you forget what it took financially and time wise to get yourself to the point of being able to do this line of work? My first year as an auto mechanic I made $35k. It required no special training, no special education, just buy a set of crapsman (<--- not mis-spelt) starter tools. And you guys are all willing to fly for something that took most of us around about 1 1/2 years to get the certs to fly this kind of stuff, never mind the hours of time building to get the hours to even be considered for a "1st real flying job" like this, for $30k a year. Where is the self worth? It's because of this attitude that many of us will now have to work untill we are into our 70's. WAKE THE EFF UP PEOPLE. We have a very specalized skill set that needs to be taken for what it is, not something less.

What is there, about 600,000 certified pilots in the US. (thats a wag)
Of that figure 75% are commercial something rated. Thats 450,000. Of that, figure 2/3'ds probably have a medical/actually fly for a living, so a little under 300,000 people in the ENTIRE united states poses the skills required to do this kind of work. Yeah, I'd consider it specalized. Charge accordingly.

 

[jhugz]

Mini & MS are spot on.

 

[v1valarob]

Seems like nobody is listening to the fact that you are on call. i.e. haveing a second job could be detrimantal. You work for them 24 HOURS A DAY. The previous pilot was on retainer. That means that this company has dibbs. IMHO, $45k is a lowball. I don't care if they have you on call to fly a freaking C-150. On call is on call.

Pick 2 of the 3

Price
Quality
Service

If you want all three, you will have to pay.

I get pretty pissed when people think I didn't work all week just because I wasn't called off of reserve. Sitting at home for 12 hours a day, 5 days straight, with only 1.5 hours of lead time and getting 2 pathetic credits a day is not "off time." I couldn't imagine being on call for 24 hours.

I would imagine with this type of operation you aren't being called on short notice... But still. Set the standard.

 

[bdhill1979]

While this situation of 100 flying hours per year would be better as a salaried position, keep in mind that depending on the situation hourly may be better than salary. My boss originally wanted to pay me a salary, but a quick number crunch and I would be making A LOT more hourly if he used me as much as he indicated he wanted too. I am on track for 500 flying hours by the end of the year and approximately an equal number of hours managing the plane/hangar, arranging hotel and rental cars, other projects, etc.....

Had I opted for the salary I would have made about $10K less this year.

 

[PA44-LUV]

My last job (not aviation related) required a 24-hr on call for one week per month, not including the normal 40-hour week (more like 60-70) while still on call. The higher ups would even get pissed if they couldn't reach you for 20 minutes while you were taking a shower. It sucked, and anyone else who has had that type of work schedule knows it can suck. Charge what you're worth, don't undercut yourself.

 

[Itchy]

50K if they are decent people to work for and 60 -70K if they have cranial rectal inversion. Life is too short to work for pricks.
All starting pay of course, and I would want a mechanism in place for yearly review of pay.
Of course, an sr22 is not a career position, so they need to find someone for long term, i.e., no sjs. If they have enough cabbage, and like the utility of an airplane, they may grow into something better.

The problem I have seen with this sort of job (and sucks if you really like the job): you're only one heartbeat away from having to find other work.

 

[I_Money]

I made $26,000 flying coolers full of piss and fecal matter around south Florida. I wasn't responsible for anyone but myself

You are responsible for an enormous amount of people on the ground - far more than your average commercial pilot will fly around on a daily basis - so your point is pretty moot.

I am actually kinda upset/disgusted by what some people think they are worth. Come on people, did you forget what it took financially and time wise to get yourself to the point of being able to do this line of work?

Please don't forget the question was - what is the going rate? The problem isn't one of what it took you to get there it is one of supply and demand - there is more pilots than their are jobs, and pilots wanting to fly and needing experience require a very small amount of money to fly.

 

[TFaudree_ERAU]

You are responsible for an enormous amount of people on the ground - far more than your average commercial pilot will fly around on a daily basis - so your point is pretty moot.

Um, no its not. The point is that the industry typically pays about $25,000-40,000 for a prop freight pilot. The industry typically pays $45,000-65,000 for a prop corporate pilot.

 

[I_Money]

Your average prop freight pilots flies Lances, Caravans, Barons, and Navajos - your average prop commuter pilot flies Dash 8s, ATRs and EMB-120s.

 

[TFaudree_ERAU]

Your average prop freight pilots flies Lances, Caravans, Barons, and Navajos - your average prop commuter pilot flies Dash 8s, ATRs and EMB-120s.

What does a commuter pilot have to do with this?

Your average corporate turbine SIC flies 8 seat jets and makes 2x-3x what a "commuter" FO makes.

Bottom line, Part 91 makes more than a majority of those in 121 and most of those in 135.

 

[minitour]

Bottom line, Part 91 makes more than a majority of those in 121 and most of those in 135.

True. 91 is where it's at.

-mini

 

[BaronPete]

Stupid but serious question. In regard to a SR22 or any aircraft that is under 12,500lbs, what all goes into managing said aircraft? Obviously, technical aspects will differ from a SR22 to a Beech Baron, but what are we talking here? Keeping track of maintenance? Making sure annuals are done? Keepin' her washed? Oil changes? :dunno:

Thanks

 

[jhugz]

Stupid but serious question. In regard to a SR22 or any aircraft that is under 12,500lbs, what all goes into managing said aircraft? Obviously, technical aspects will differ from a SR22 to a Beech Baron, but what are we talking here? Keeping track of maintenance? Making sure annuals are done? Keepin' her washed? Oil changes? :dunno:

Thanks

Washed outside, cleaned inside, maintenance done properly w/ minimal down time, booking hotels, rental cars...These are just a few, someone w/ more experience can help more.

 

[dasleben]

But its only for 100 hours a year.

You're not being paid for the time you're flying. You're being paid for being on call 24/7.

$25,000? No way in HELL. This job simply isn't worth that.

 

[BaronPete]

Washed outside, cleaned inside, maintenance done properly w/ minimal down time, booking hotels, rental cars...These are just a few, someone w/ more experience can help more.

By maintenance you mean making sure you appropriately schedule mechanics, repairs etc, right? I'll rephrase, to manage said aircraft, would they expect you do personally do the maintenance? Or just be expected to have the plane repaired / kept in tip-top shape by hiring a reputable mechanic in a timely fashion?

 

[jhugz]

By maintenance you mean making sure you appropriately schedule mechanics, repairs etc, right? I'll rephrase, to manage said aircraft, would they expect you do personally do the maintenance? Or just be expected to have the plane repaired / kept in tip-top shape by hiring a reputable mechanic in a timely fashion?

Nah...manage the MX. Like I said, there are better people to ask. Not my area.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

Whatever you do, make sure you get a contract in writing, and make it so that you have 60 days written notice of termination of the contract, with pay.

I had a buddy of mine do something similiar in a Navajo. Some rich guy had him move 200 miles away and paid him a pretty good wage to fly him around in a Navajo. After about 3 months, the guy decided he didn't want the airplane or pilot anymore and just terminated my friend, leaving him with 3 months remaining on a lease and no other job lined up.

It would probably be more fair for everyone involved to pay you a salary for managing the aircraft, and hourly for the flying.

 

[minitour]

It would probably be more fair for everyone involved to pay you a salary for managing the aircraft, and hourly for the flying.

Yuck.

Straight salary. Paid either every week or every other week. Easier to budget.

I agree with the contract and 60 day termination notice...excellent idea!

-mini

 

[TFaudree_ERAU]

By maintenance you mean making sure you appropriately schedule mechanics, repairs etc, right?

Yes. The big things are scheduling maintenance as to not conflict with trips, keeping up with ADs and SBs, keeping avionics databases up to date (can and should be a pilot function with proper log entries). If you break down on the road; finding maintenance support and getting the airplane back in the air as soon as possible, filing and following up on warranty claims if applicable,. Most importantly, you need to have an open line of communication with the owner about the cost of any maintenance. You're spending their money, and often times there are numerous options for fixing a problem. You need to know how much each one costs, and convey the advantages and disadvantages of each one to the owner.

For example, we have a recurring problem with the old radios on our Lear 55. We can have them removed, shipped out, repaired, shipped back and reinstalled for about $5,000. The airplane recently went in for a new GPS and interior. I informed the owners that it might be prudent to spend about $50,000 and get some new digital radios that would work without fail for many years to come.

They opted to continue with the repair option. While I don't agree with the decision, it is their money and if they understand the repercussions of their decision, there is nothing I can do...except say "I told you so" next time they break :bandit:.