PCL TA fails

pilotlight said:
what do you guys think for a time line before we see another TA? 1 month, 6 months? 1 Year?
I am prepared for 1 year.
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1 month would be extremely optimistic under any circumstances, I think. We'll have new MEM CA (and now MEM FO) reps on the 16th, MEC is meeting on the 19th, and that will also be the day the new NC is set in place. I'd say 6 months might be realistic. BUT, I'd say hope for 6 months, plan for 1 year or more. That way you're covered.
 
kellwolf said:
1 month would be extremely optimistic under any circumstances, I think. We'll have new MEM CA (and now MEM FO) reps on the 16th, MEC is meeting on the 19th, and that will also be the day the new NC is set in place. I'd say 6 months might be realistic. BUT, I'd say hope for 6 months, plan for 1 year or more. That way you're covered.
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Personally, I think we are going to be at this for at least another year, if not a little more. I am willing to consider another TA in less than 12 months a good accomplishment.

Remember, management is now also negotiating with Colgan, so they have to split their time between the two airlines... that might slow things down a bit. It is also dependent on the MEC and the new NC... do we just want to patch the current TA so that it will just barely pass, or do we try and negotiate the contract we deserve?
 
ctab5060X said:
Personally, I think we are going to be at this for at least another year, if not a little more
Remember, management is now also negotiating with Colgan, so they have to split their time between the two airlines... that might slow things down a bit. It is also dependent on the MEC and the new NC... do we just want to patch the current TA so that it will just barely pass, or do we try and negotiate the contract we deserve?
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I don't think it'll slow things down. We're closer to being done than Colgan, and our management can't walk and chew gum at the same time, much less negotiate with two different airlines. They'll finish up the one that's closest then concentrate on the other. Now, that doesn't mean Colgan won't get those hard sections like "ALPA Dues check off" or "Terrorism and Hijacking Benefits" done.
 
I doubt that the company will use the same negotiating teams on both properties. Buddy Casey will probably lead things on the Colgan side, and Clive or Fato will probably lead things on the Pinnacle side. I don't think having both in negotiations will affect things.
 
Because we came up this was the FastRead we sent out...

Negotiating Committee Update
By Capt. Barry Nomann, Chairman
Barry.Nomann@alpa.org


This is our first update on negotiations with management for our first contract. After each negotiating session, we will send out a message covering the items we discussed and the progress we made during the week. Look for these updates following each session.

Our first face-to-face negotiating sessions with management were held Wednesday through Friday of last week. We were very pleased with the attitude that both sides brought to the table and the productive discussions we had throughout the three days.

On Wednesday we started by making a presentation to management about our preparations, our negotiating team, and the approach we will be taking at the table. Our presentation was very well received by our management team.

Colgan Air’s negotiating team includes Mary Finnigan (chair), Dot Chaplin, Tom Brooks and Jill Black. They are joined at the table by their outside counsel, Joe Manson of Baker Hostetler. As you know, your Negotiating Committee is made up of Capt. Barry Nomann (chairman), FO Nathan Hillard, and Capt. Richard Jurkiewicz. We are joined at the table by our contract administrator, Jeff Loesel.

Following those preliminaries, we sat down to open discussion on a Negotiations Protocol Agreement and Association Leave Letter of Agreement (LOA). We were able to reach agreement on the negotiations protocol, covering the dates and locations for bargaining and mechanics of the negotiating process. We have established the dates for our next six negotiating sessions up through February 2010. We also came to an agreement, in principle, on the Association Leave LOA, securing a process by which your elected representatives and volunteers can receive leave to perform their work for the pilot group.

We appreciate that management representatives came to the table well prepared to bargain. Over the three days we discussed a total of seven of the 30-or-so sections that will be in our final contract. I am pleased to report that we have already come to a tentative agreement (TA) on two sections of our contract as indicated below:

„ Section 10 Transfer to Non-Flying or Supervisory Duty (reached a TA)
„ Section 15 Physical Standards, Examinations and Testing
„ Section 17 Prisoner, Hostage, or Hijacking Benefits (reached a TA)
„ Section 19 Discipline and Disciplinary Grievances
„ Section 20 Contract Grievances
„ Section 21 Mediation and System Board of Adjustment
„ Section 22 Seniority

Look for our first edition of the Bargainer’s Blog newsletter during the first couple weeks of October for a full discussion of how we chose which sections to present, in what order, and a summary of all of the different sections that will be in our final contract. In addition to these post-session updates, the Bargainer’s Blog newsletter will contain more detailed information about the Railway Labor Act, the negotiations process, and our preparations for negotiations. We will also post information on the Negotiating Committee page of our MEC website, which will be up and running by mid October.

Overall, we believe it was a productive week for both sides. Your Negotiating Committee worked very hard to prepare for this first meeting and it is clear that our management has also been working hard in preparation for these important discussions.

Our next meeting with management is scheduled for October 27-29, and we look forward to that session being as productive as this one was.
 
Mark, could you do me a favor and talk to our guys about "transparency?" Part of the reason everyone is so hacked off at the MEC and the NC over here is because we were all kept in the dark on pretty much everything. What you and your team have done in that one Fast Read is LIGHTYEARS past any kind of info we got in the 3 1/2 years I"ve been here. Our FR would be like "We met with the company. Progress was/was not made." That was it. The only way we knew what was agreed on was either rumors, speculation or by cornering one of the NC guys in the crew room. The latter proved to be less reliable than the rumors considering what was in the TA versus what we were TOLD was in the TA.

I LOVE the idea of a blog by the NC, and I really hope we borrow that from you on our side. I REALLY hope this isn't gonna take long for us, but if it does, we need to learn from mistakes made and keep the pilot group better informed than we have been. I joined up on the P2P group to try to get better info out to guys and squash rumors. Unfortunately, we weren't getting much info to work with (at least I didn't think so) either.
 
Seggy said:
Because we came up this was the FastRead we sent out...

Negotiating Committee Update
By Capt. Barry Nomann, Chairman
Barry.Nomann@alpa.org


This is our first update on negotiations with management for our first contract. After each negotiating session, we will send out a message covering the items we discussed and the progress we made during the week. Look for these updates following each session.

Our first face-to-face negotiating sessions with management were held Wednesday through Friday of last week. We were very pleased with the attitude that both sides brought to the table and the productive discussions we had throughout the three days.

On Wednesday we started by making a presentation to management about our preparations, our negotiating team, and the approach we will be taking at the table. Our presentation was very well received by our management team.

Colgan Air’s negotiating team includes Mary Finnigan (chair), Dot Chaplin, Tom Brooks and Jill Black. They are joined at the table by their outside counsel, Joe Manson of Baker Hostetler. As you know, your Negotiating Committee is made up of Capt. Barry Nomann (chairman), FO Nathan Hillard, and Capt. Richard Jurkiewicz. We are joined at the table by our contract administrator, Jeff Loesel.

Following those preliminaries, we sat down to open discussion on a Negotiations Protocol Agreement and Association Leave Letter of Agreement (LOA). We were able to reach agreement on the negotiations protocol, covering the dates and locations for bargaining and mechanics of the negotiating process. We have established the dates for our next six negotiating sessions up through February 2010. We also came to an agreement, in principle, on the Association Leave LOA, securing a process by which your elected representatives and volunteers can receive leave to perform their work for the pilot group.

We appreciate that management representatives came to the table well prepared to bargain. Over the three days we discussed a total of seven of the 30-or-so sections that will be in our final contract. I am pleased to report that we have already come to a tentative agreement (TA) on two sections of our contract as indicated below:

„ Section 10 Transfer to Non-Flying or Supervisory Duty (reached a TA)
„ Section 15 Physical Standards, Examinations and Testing
„ Section 17 Prisoner, Hostage, or Hijacking Benefits (reached a TA)
„ Section 19 Discipline and Disciplinary Grievances
„ Section 20 Contract Grievances
„ Section 21 Mediation and System Board of Adjustment
„ Section 22 Seniority

Look for our first edition of the Bargainer’s Blog newsletter during the first couple weeks of October for a full discussion of how we chose which sections to present, in what order, and a summary of all of the different sections that will be in our final contract. In addition to these post-session updates, the Bargainer’s Blog newsletter will contain more detailed information about the Railway Labor Act, the negotiations process, and our preparations for negotiations. We will also post information on the Negotiating Committee page of our MEC website, which will be up and running by mid October.

Overall, we believe it was a productive week for both sides. Your Negotiating Committee worked very hard to prepare for this first meeting and it is clear that our management has also been working hard in preparation for these important discussions.

Our next meeting with management is scheduled for October 27-29, and we look forward to that session being as productive as this one was.
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How about access to wireless internet (it's already there) that we can use in the crew room? I've already got in arguements with that worthless base/station manager guy. Now that's what I want in our contract! Internet!

And I highly doubt that Colgan/Pinnacle negotiating at the same time slows anything down. Our management negotiating team is Colgan family people.
 
L-16B said:
How about access to wireless internet (it's already there) that we can use in the crew room? I've already got in arguements with that worthless base/station manager guy. Now that's what I want in our contract! Internet!

And I highly doubt that Colgan/Pinnacle negotiating at the same time slows anything down. Our management negotiating team is Colgan family people.
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Well we don't have internet yet (Pinnacle Atlanta).... funny how they didn't turn it on at the 3 "other" bases until they were all ready, but we're just left in the dark...
 
L-16B said:
How about access to wireless internet (it's already there) that we can use in the crew room? I've already got in arguements with that worthless base/station manager guy. Now that's what I want in our contract! Internet!

And I highly doubt that Colgan/Pinnacle negotiating at the same time slows anything down. Our management negotiating team is Colgan family people.
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No worries, it's being addressed. ;) Could take a little more prodding; but it'll happen.
 
L-16B said:
How about access to wireless internet (it's already there) that we can use in the crew room? I've already got in arguements with that worthless base/station manager guy. Now that's what I want in our contract! Internet!

And I highly doubt that Colgan/Pinnacle negotiating at the same time slows anything down. Our management negotiating team is Colgan family people.
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After we voted in ALPA they put 2 more computers into the crew room to make 3. Added a big flat screen tv, a fridge, and put in wireless internet. This is down at Dulles.

It was shocking.
 
changing pace for a bit, does anyone know if we lost our place in the paint line or something, they did a lot right off the bat but at last count we only had 14 painted which doesnt add up to the once per week schedule we were told. Anyone know anything? Not trying to start rumors or anything but by my count we should have over 20, just curious.
 
pilotlight said:
changing pace for a bit, does anyone know if we lost our place in the paint line or something, they did a lot right off the bat but at last count we only had 14 painted which doesnt add up to the once per week schedule we were told. Anyone know anything? Not trying to start rumors or anything but by my count we should have over 20, just curious.
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Who cares?
 
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