Sorry guys, you still havent changed my mind and dont think you ever will from today til the day I retire. First off, my point with the Luftansa program was to prove your point that a 250hr pilot does not belong in the cockpit period. I expressly stated its not a matter of hrs, but its a matter of the quality of the training. So since you guys are so strongly defending the quality of the Luftansa training program, looks like I proved my point. This is why ATP instructors get in quicker than you guys who went the longer route. My post was never meant to say hey luftansa does it so MAPD or DCA is the same!
I'm pretty sure there are some guys that will complain about the quality of training anywhere, including ATP. If an instructor goes to ATP and instructs there, they're still only as good as THEY make themselves to be. If they kinda sail through with the attitude of "Oh, I went to ATP and instructed there, so airlines will be falling all over me," they might get hired, but they're gonna be miserable SOBs in the cockpit. Newsflash, ATP's also in it for the money, not the quality training.
In the long run they make you more money if you do the math. You may spend more time at MESA as an FO b/c you are low on hrs, but you are making more during that time than you would as a flight instructor. (Dont bring up first year pay since it goes up significantly).
I'd hardly call $7 and hour followed by $3 a year "significant" as far as raises go, but okay. BTW, I'm making LESS now than I was as a CFI, so there that goes. Now, the ATP guys might be making more, especially if they were paying ATP for housing.
Then it all cancels out when you move over to captain b/c you have that much more years of seniority. For example, instead of a 2-3yr upgrade you have a 3-5 year upgrade but you are on 3rd-5th year captain pay!
Ah yes, but if I upgrade earlier with more hours (after making more as a CFI than I would as an FO), then I could go to SWA faster, thus making more than your Mesa 5 year CA. We can argue this all day, ya know. In the end, it's more than just money. I still wouldn't go to Mesa. There are things in their contract that I don't agree with and wouldn't be happy with, hence I didn't apply there. As I said earlier, I hope they can get their work rules improved with the next contract.
MESA makes money you make money everybody is happy! If you guys looked more at the long run of things you might be happier. I like to look at the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow no matter how crappy the rainbow may be, just me.
Oh, I am looking at the big picture. That's why I'm not at Eagle. However, I'm not gonna sell my soul for a quick upgrade, either. Nor am I gonna hock myself into debt for an $18-25K a year job. THAT wouldn't be looking at the big picture. I'd like to know how the guys with $100K+ loans are gonna pay that the first year? Are they gonna say "Well, I'll make more next year, so I can start paying it then?" I doubt SLM will like that answer.
You guys defend the quality high time pilot and I will always defend the quality of the low time pilot, as does the safety record of the airlines, and many other airline pilots.
I can also say that 14 year olds have a better driving record than 25 year olds. I mean, there aren't any accident records saying otherwise, right? Unless the FAA and airlines start keeping track of records where CAs intervene to keep the aircraft safe, we won't have any realistic numbers. Given the right CIRCUMSTANCES, a low time pilot can be good in the flight deck. However, those circumstance are rare at best. A bridge program or type rating doesn't instill the real world experience that can become vital in an aircraft. What's the low timer gonna do when the FMS craps out in cruise? Sure, they pratice FMS out in an approach environment, but what if it happens in cruise where they AREN'T getting vectored? It's all fine to know systems backwards and forwards, but if I have to make a quick divert due to WX somewhere down the road, I'd prefer to have someone that's been there, done that than someone who can draw a schematic of the pneumatic system.
Steve says why do think the professional pilots on this site are telling me different? It is because most of you all took the longer road home. As soon as I start instructing I will send my resume to MESA because MESA will get me out of MESA quickest.
Ya know, I WAS you about a year and a half ago. Ask Don. We've had knock down drag outs about MAPD since that's where I was planning on going. I even used the same aguements you are. Know what happened? I decided to get my CFI ratings and realized how much I DIDN'T know. Once you do get your CFI ratings and have some dual given under your belt and you still feel the same way, then you've got some credibility. Right now, you're argueing with a lot of people that are telling you things you don't want to hear despite the fact that a lot of us have already been through what you're going through. Take the advice, or not. That's your perrogative....
Pilots at your respective airlines are being offered jobs at 300-600hr and they will take it. Does it upset you? Yup. Is there anything you can do about it but complain? Yup.
Oh? And what CAN we do? I'd like to hear this one. How can we change the hiring practices of our company's human resources dept? Hell, my company put two low timers in a plane and wound up with a hull loss and two fewer pilots. I'm damn surprised we're back on this road, actually.
Hey you chose to get in this industry nobody forced you too. Don't like it? quit. Go be a lawyer or docter or whatever will make you "more money"
The faster you realize that it's not always about money, the better it's gonna be......
tag all over it
