PCATD and IACRA
- Thread starter Blackhawk
- Start date
R
Roger, Roger
Guest
Probably have to do a paper 8710. We have a few of our 141 courses like that.
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
Yeah... that has pretty much been the case. Our phone call to IACRA Help Desk went something like this:
Them: "It's not authorized to use the PCATD for private."
Us:"But we have a letter saying we can."
Them:"We don't care what the company says, you can't use it."
Us:"The letter is from the government."
Them:"We're the FAA and we say you can't."
Us:"The letter is from the FAA."
Them: "We don't care. You can't use it."
:banghead:
Hey its like arguing with dell!
CoffeeIcePapers
Well-Hung Member
Try the Training Device column.
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
It won't let you. It insists you need 3 hours hood/WX time.
Michael95U
Well-Known Member
Read the regs. 3 hours must be IN the airplane. Above and beyond that, you can apply the 2.5 hours.
(3) 3 hours of flight training in a single-engine airplane on the control and maneuvering of an airplane solely by reference to instruments, including straight and level flight, constant airspeed climbs and descents, turns to a heading, recovery from unusual flight attitudes, radio communications, and the use of navigation systems/facilities and radar services appropriate to instrument flight;
The 2.5 hours does not substitute for the 3 hours required in the aircraft.
Michael95U
Well-Known Member
I talked with the IACRA people, and between them and my FSDO, we decided that since our AATD gives the same credit as a FTD 3, we just put the AATD in the Training Device column (where FTD time is recorded). It works fine. I would clear it with the FSDO first though.
Hopefully the FAA can update the 8710 form some time soon. We have been dealing with this for two years now.
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
That is not what the letter says. The letter (from the FAA), says substitute.
Michael95U
Well-Known Member
I have the same letter and OKC said 3 hours in the airplane. They were backed up by the FSDO. The 2.5 is applied to total experience, not the instrument training required for the PPL. The reg that the letter refers to is 61.109(k)(1), not 61.109(a)(3)
(k) Permitted credit for use of a flight simulator or flight training device. (1) Except as provided in paragraphs (k)(2) of this section, a maximum of 2.5 hours of training in a flight simulator or flight training device representing the category, class, and type, if applicable, of aircraft appropriate to the rating sought, may be credited toward the flight training time required by this section, if received from an authorized instructor. (It does not say credited towards flight time with reference solely by reference to instruments)
Check out: http://flyelite.com/support/documents/RC1_Approval_Letter.pdf for the letter.
(k) Permitted credit for use of a flight simulator or flight training device. (1) Except as provided in paragraphs (k)(2) of this section, a maximum of 2.5 hours of training in a flight simulator or flight training device representing the category, class, and type, if applicable, of aircraft appropriate to the rating sought, may be credited toward the flight training time required by this section, if received from an authorized instructor. (It does not say credited towards flight time with reference solely by reference to instruments)
Check out: http://flyelite.com/support/documents/RC1_Approval_Letter.pdf for the letter.
CoffeeIcePapers
Well-Hung Member
Although I agree with your assessment, your argument doesn't make sense. Look what you bolded, and what the requirement is:
Michael95U
Well-Known Member
Better? :beer:
3 hours of flight training in a single-engine airplane on the control and maneuvering of an airplane solely by reference to instruments,
CoffeeIcePapers
Well-Hung Member
Yeah, I get it, but the reference is confusing as heck. The simulator credit reg says that as long as it is representative of the cat, class, and type, it can be used to credit for flight training time.
Like I said, I agree with you, it just doesn't really make sense to me and is probably one of the most confusing things in the FARs.