Passenger Rant from experienced passenger
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trafficinsight
Well-Known Member
I suppose next time he can feel free to take a covered wagon... hunt some buffalo maybe. 
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Deleted member 27505
Guest
Really, you've never been on the other side of that cockpit door? As often as not, it sucks back there. I sympathize with the guy. I could have written that piece myself; I've had very similar experiences. While there are certainly folks with much grander and more acute issues, this isn't really "uptown"; Airline travel ain't exactly rarefied anymore. Hell, even my snack baskets, newspapers, and minis aren't that uptown, at least the way I fly.
97victor
Well-Known Member
Throughout the entire article I couldn't keep from thinking about some of the comments he might get from airline personel, only to come to the comment section at the bottom and all of them are supportive. I decided to retort, and alas recieved "comment will be published after approval"..sissy.
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Deleted member 27505
Guest
Agreed. Wimpy. Post your comment here.
The writer was a little harsh about some of the folks who were probably truly trying to do the best they could. But let's be honest. Playing gate agents is like playing roulette. You get one answer one minute, another the next. One answer from one agent, another from the next. Why does one need tell the most compelling sob story and garner the "correct" rapport with the gate agent to get what one has already paid for? I paid for a ticket... You confirmed me... I'm at the airport on time... Dammit, take me to where I paid to go. Sometimes Wx creates acute problems, but often, as was the case here, it's not really the cause of the cascading problems that beset the airlines. That is due to crappy management and planning.
While his story was waxed vitriolic (how could it not?) his points were pretty valid. I've had two day delays in sunny weather after getting bumped from confirmed tickets...WTF? Then, maybe, you get a voucher which is good only on that airline, has no cash value, and must be used within a year on flight whose price has increased. Even just to get what is legally obligated to you, you've basically got to be have an attorney's knowledge of the laws.
The point is, airlines management (refernence @Seggy 's comments about culture) don't really care about customers and that attitude is permeated throughout the organizations. Airline's management see passengers (and employees) as fungible cattle. If they just followed the Golden Rule, much improvement would be seen. Oh, that's idealistic? These are rugged, free-market competitors who are all about their bonus and increasing stock price? Blah, blah, free market, blah, blah. Yawn. Say what you will about SWA, until recently, they treated customers as, well, customers. I think their profit speaks for itself.
97victor
Well-Known Member
While i agree that he makes some valid points, I honestly feel that he would be singing a different tune if he had ever worked in the industry..even for a week. It's just like the people who expect the world from their server at Chili's. Go wait tables for a week and tell me if your complaints don't change just a little bit. Likewise, be director of an SOC of an airline and see if you don't gain a different perspective on the havoc that weather can cause, especially on crews and their availabitly. Not to mention that 117 started at the same time.
Ayork62493
GBR
Exhibit A.. Delta global services. Again, I do it part time for travel benefits but in the year I've worked there we had not stopped hiring. The turnover rate is atrocious. Management does not care about passengers, and even more so does not give a damn about employees. We're disposable.
I just wonder... When will enough be enough. Delta kept saying we were going to get a big raise and that things were going to improve at my station. They played this out for seven months, promising over and over. They have us a raise from 8.25 to 8.50. It all goes back to that whole, you get what ya pay for thing.
I just wonder... When will enough be enough. Delta kept saying we were going to get a big raise and that things were going to improve at my station. They played this out for seven months, promising over and over. They have us a raise from 8.25 to 8.50. It all goes back to that whole, you get what ya pay for thing.
PeanuckleCRJ
Poodle Wrangler
I get that things can get frustrating, but for being an experienced traveler he's rather uneducated on the way airline operations go (if you sell more than x seats, just pull another plane out of the hangar... we don't just have 100 million dollar machines sitting around at every airport), particularly in the coldest winter storm we've had in the last 20 years.
Yeah, I'm biased, but people also have very unrealistic expectations of a highly complex operation that is made by the media to be as simple as driving a bus or something.
Upon further reading, he has zero understanding of weather systems and even less of flight operations. Some of it is snarky and funny, but its mostly the rambling of an entitled idiot.
Yeah, I'm biased, but people also have very unrealistic expectations of a highly complex operation that is made by the media to be as simple as driving a bus or something.
Upon further reading, he has zero understanding of weather systems and even less of flight operations. Some of it is snarky and funny, but its mostly the rambling of an entitled idiot.
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Deleted member 27505
Guest
I did work in restaurants and I now work with some of the most persnickity SOBs you're like to meet. But all my customers are Mr/Ms. Customer to me...right after all my colleagues are Mr/Ms. Colleague.
PeanuckleCRJ
Poodle Wrangler
Exactly. They are in the business to make money... it's not a charity. Empty seats are revenue left on the ground.
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Deleted member 27505
Guest
Yeah, right. But, er, ah, um... You can't sell the same item to two people?
If you did that in any other industry, you would be arrested, convicted, and put in prison.
Check out the movie , "The Producers" (the ORIGNINAL one) for an explanation of the concept and a whole lotta laughs!
PeanuckleCRJ
Poodle Wrangler
Overbooking is sanctioned via the regulations and follows well established statistics. Most of the time it's not an issue (there would be much larger amounts of seats open on each flight and razor thin profit margins would get even thinner or disappear), however in a situation like this where 2 major winter storms and FAR 117 occurred... well, you've got the making of a complete meltdown, which occurred. To exacerbate that, UAL did the worst job out of the majors in planning for 117 and was cancelling flights left and right on top of what was already going to be a mess no matter how well they planned for it.
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Deleted member 27505
Guest
Copy. Like I said before, I understand exigent circumstances. But with all the king's horses and all the king's men those should be remediated within a few days, especially when the affected party has ample foreknowledge of the impending disruptive event. Like I also said, I've had this crap happen (not infrequently) on sunny summer days with no extenuating circumstances to use as an excuse. I'm a pretty understanding guy, really, but I also have a very sensitive BS meter. Not gonna buy it. Wuddon be prudent. Not at this juncture.
gotWXdagain
Polished Member
PeanuckleCRJ
Poodle Wrangler
Winter storms are highly unpredictable... the predicted severity of the event can and frequently does change significantly even as close as 24 hours out. That was a major source of the ignorance in the blog article... he thought they had detailed knowledge weeks out. That's not the way weather forecasting works and the system would shut down weekly if they relied on 7 day (or farther out) forecasts.
UALs dealing with FAR 117 was unexcusable... I'll give you that.
As far as summer time, you should know better than that. A plane dealing with thunderstorms on one side of the country can and does cascade into a delay in a seemingly unrelated city. We don't have just spares of hundred million dollar aircraft waiting around at every station)
🦈💜
Well-Known Member
There's a big, big divide here. I definitely understand how perspective can result in bias, and a lack thereof can result in ignorance. On one hand, you need to be very careful to recognize your unfamiliarity with the inner workings of an operation when you're a complaining customer.
On the other hand, let's be honest... if a customer pays for a ticket, it's reasonable for them to expect that it will correspond to a seat. It's reasonable for them to expect that, at the very least, they'll get where they're going...and that if something goes wrong, the company will bend over backwards to accommodate them.
The guy's story isn't particularly whiny. It's a little over the top for the sake of effect, and not the most serious piece of prose out there. Still, someone in the position he describes in his story does have a right to rant. It's not the customer's fault that the airline is running understaffed or under-equipped to save money, or that they don't have any provisions to smoothly accommodate passengers on flights which are delayed or cancelled due to weather.
It's certainly not the customer's fault that airlines are offering inexpensive tickets, and I think that's a terrible, terrible angle to take.
I'm not a "customer is always right" sort of fox. In fact, I'm a "customer is usually wrong" sort of fox, by dint of experience. But the guy was pretty much screwed hard-core by the airline he chose to give his money to. When you say "We know you have many choices when it comes to travel, and we appreciate you flying with (us)," do you actually mean it...? Because as a customer, when I pick an airline to take me to my destination, I'm exercising discrimination, judgment based on experience, faith in the company, and very possibly loyalty. I don't know exactly what's rattling around in the system—though I have a better idea than most—but I shouldn't have to.
-Fox
On the other hand, let's be honest... if a customer pays for a ticket, it's reasonable for them to expect that it will correspond to a seat. It's reasonable for them to expect that, at the very least, they'll get where they're going...and that if something goes wrong, the company will bend over backwards to accommodate them.
The guy's story isn't particularly whiny. It's a little over the top for the sake of effect, and not the most serious piece of prose out there. Still, someone in the position he describes in his story does have a right to rant. It's not the customer's fault that the airline is running understaffed or under-equipped to save money, or that they don't have any provisions to smoothly accommodate passengers on flights which are delayed or cancelled due to weather.
It's certainly not the customer's fault that airlines are offering inexpensive tickets, and I think that's a terrible, terrible angle to take.
I'm not a "customer is always right" sort of fox. In fact, I'm a "customer is usually wrong" sort of fox, by dint of experience. But the guy was pretty much screwed hard-core by the airline he chose to give his money to. When you say "We know you have many choices when it comes to travel, and we appreciate you flying with (us)," do you actually mean it...? Because as a customer, when I pick an airline to take me to my destination, I'm exercising discrimination, judgment based on experience, faith in the company, and very possibly loyalty. I don't know exactly what's rattling around in the system—though I have a better idea than most—but I shouldn't have to.
-Fox
One time an airline lost my luggage, not a big deal, we were told to fill out a form, and if it was longer then 24 hours, we could buy things just keep the receipt to be reimbursed. All fine, except we were originally booked on an a319, about 2 weeks prior to departure got an update we were now on an ERJ. Show up to the airport and the aircraft is oversold, by approx 7 people. So, obviously they weren't filling the a319 and downgraded the aircraft. 7 people get bumped, but the flight is full and its about a 3 hour flight. So, you in fact didn't lose my luggage, you left it because you downgraded the plane, and had to leave bags behind for weight issues. I understand all of this...what I don't understand is how you charged me $75 for said bag, never offered a refund, after multiple attempts to contact customer service for one, never got one. Then, it takes 3 days of my 4 day trip for the bag to show up. I show up to the airport to fly back, and you want me to pay $75 again to check the bag that I have only now had for less then 12 hours. After arguing with the gate agent, I am given a number to call to get a refund. I pay, head to the gate. No shocker here, but the flight was full, again booked as an a319, now an ERJ. I have a nice window seat, good view of them loading luggage, and watch as they leave off an entire cart. So, once again I land, no bag, only took 3 days again for it to come to my house. This happened 2 years ago, I was never able to get a refund for my baggage fees, nor a reimbursement for items I paid for while with no bag. I have never flown on United/Continental, pinnacle, expressjet or whatever named company united pawned this • show off to again, and never will.
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Deleted member 27505
Guest
I gotta tell you, you're sounding more and more like those gate agents all the time. And I try, I really try, to be polite to them. Maybe it would be different if we were talking while hanging out drinking a beer.
I'm a pilot. I do know better.
Well folks we're having a rain shower over Burma right now AND... The plane's broke. The pilot's hotel didn't give him a wake up call. The flight attendants are sick. The caterers can't find the food. The tires are underpressurized. The armrest in 2C is broken. The crew bus is lost. A new part is needed but we don’t have one here. We’re waiting for the snow to melt before we can proceed to deicing. We’re waiting for some bags to be transferred. We’re waiting for some passengers from some other delayed flights. The fuel truck ran out of fuel. The pilot/FA forgot his/her passport/glasses/wallet/lucky rabbit's foot. We’ve got a “light” we’ve got to take care of. The mechanics found a part, but now there’s a new light. There’s no one to operate the jetway. There’s another plane in the gate. The luggage tug is broken. We need to clean the airplane. “Well, folks, you see there’s a sticker missing.” The toilet is plugged up. We need to fly in a mechanic from Chicago. The luggage tug just hit the undercarriage. The dog ate the pilot’s manifest. “Folks, we’ve got an issue with dispatch. It’s just gonna be a short 15 minute, 30 minute, 1 hour, 3 hour, 5 hour delay. Ok, folks, we’re all ready to go, but we’re going to need to to deplane and go to gate 23 for a new plane.” Yeah.
Heard 'em all. Usually well after the fact. Rarely does anyone EVER inform you until well after the fact. Some of these are real. But even the real ones indicate poor management and planning. And they almost always include that thunderstorm over Burma, or Chicago, or Zurich, or wherever. Nice get out of jail free card. I want one of those.
Bottom line is your "confirmed" seat magically vanishes. Instead of being put on the NEXT f'ing plane, you're put on standby and get to where you are going TWO DAYS later. That's unacceptable. And should be illegal. It's essentially theft of services. Try getting on a plane without a ticket and see how quick that otherwise logy gate agent perks up. The airlines DON'T CARE. At risk of offending, it sounds like you might not understand how not to be an apologist for the almost spherically flawed airline industry.
I'm done. As the Harley riders say, if I gotta explain it to you, you won't understand.