Part 91 or 135?

Nick2024

Well-Known Member
Okay I have a student who just purchased a DA-40XLS to finish his private pilot training in. He is also a Doctor who works in another city one week out of the month. He wants me to fly him to that city drop him off and I can fly the plane back until he needs to be picked up.

My question is.. Can I legally do this? I believe it's pt 91 since he owns the plane, providing the plane, and hiring me to fly it / teach him in it. So me flying him back and fourth is okay? Legal? and not considered pt 135?
 

ppragman

FLIPY FLAPS!
Okay I have a student who just purchased a DA-40XLS to finish his private pilot training in. He is also a Doctor who works in another city one week out of the month. He wants me to fly him to that city drop him off and I can fly the plane back until he needs to be picked up.

My question is.. Can I legally do this? I believe it's pt 91 since he owns the plane, providing the plane, and hiring me to fly it / teach him in it. So me flying him back and fourth is okay? Legal? and not considered pt 135?
I would say so - not only that, it's a great opportunity. As long as you're not "holding out" your services for others to use you'll be fine, if he starts telling his friends that for a fee you can fly them somewhere you'll need to talk to him about that a bit.
 

Autothrust Blue

Commander Air Group, BSG-75
Okay I have a student who just purchased a DA-40XLS to finish his private pilot training in. He is also a Doctor who works in another city one week out of the month. He wants me to fly him to that city drop him off and I can fly the plane back until he needs to be picked up.

My question is.. Can I legally do this? I believe it's pt 91 since he owns the plane, providing the plane, and hiring me to fly it / teach him in it. So me flying him back and fourth is okay? Legal? and not considered pt 135?
I'd consider this Part 91 pilot service, in which you, the pilot, are engaged to operate the aircraft, for its owner and his or her guests.

Enjoy the DA-40, I've never flown the XLS but I have about 20 hours in the non-XLS and really liked it.
 

Nick2024

Well-Known Member
Thanks! I was thinking this is okay to do but needed the words from my fellow JC'ers! Off topic but another question........I am taking my CFI-I ride next month, I am using my friends airplane for the checkride.... Does the plane need the 100 hr inspection complied with? again I am thinking no on this issue as well.
 

Nick2024

Well-Known Member
and yes I am really looking forward to flying the DA-40XLS! I went on a sals flight while he was looking at buying, We also tested out a 2012 SR-22 G3 Turbo! that was a nice airplane!
 

Pay2

Oberkellner
I did this for a year with a dentist in his G3 SR22 turbo. Flew him 400 miles to work on Mondays then flew back home alone for the week. Flew back to pick him up on Thursdays. Paid very well for a single piston job. Definitely part 91. He owned the plane and paid me, so it's not even boarder line 135. Have fun and don't under charge!
 

rframe

pǝʇɹǝʌuı
I am taking my CFI-I ride next month, I am using my friends airplane for the checkride.... Does the plane need the 100 hr inspection complied with?
No, but you better be able to explain why for a check ride.

91.409(2)(b)
(b) Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, no person may operate an aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) for hire, and no person may give flight instruction for hire in an aircraft which that person provides, unless within the preceding 100 hours of time in service the aircraft has received an annual or 100-hour inspection and been approved for return to service in accordance with part 43 of this chapter...​
 

A150K

Well-Known Member
Thanks! I was thinking this is okay to do but needed the words from my fellow JC'ers! Off topic but another question........I am taking my CFI-I ride next month, I am using my friends airplane for the checkride.... Does the plane need the 100 hr inspection complied with? again I am thinking no on this issue as well.
No. Otherwise, most owners who take checkrides in their planes would be providing illegal aircraft. Also, the sole act of renting out an airplane does not require a 100 HR. The 100 hr only comes into play when carrying pax for hire or providing an aircraft for instruction.
 

Rotor2Wing

Unapologetically American
I would say so - not only that, it's a great opportunity. As long as you're not "holding out" your services for others to use you'll be fine, if he starts telling his friends that for a fee you can fly them somewhere you'll need to talk to him about that a bit.
Nick2024

If this does come up just tell him they will have to become part owners to still do this under part 91.
 

ppragman

FLIPY FLAPS!
If all parties involved are legal owners what are the limits?
It depends on share price, what responsibility for the airplane the "owners" are going to take, and potentially, there could be some 91K limitations too if he's selling these just willy nilly. Basically, it depends on how he's running his business, but "hey, I'm gonna sell you a share of the airplane for a dollar, now I can take you anywhere for price X" goes beyond the spirit of the law, and the FAA won't like that at all. Not that you're likely to ever get caught, but the truth is that he's doing it for enough people it could be "holding out," and providing an "air charter."
 

skydisaster

Well-Known Member
It depends on share price, what responsibility for the airplane the "owners" are going to take, and potentially, there could be some 91K limitations too if he's selling these just willy nilly. Basically, it depends on how he's running his business, but "hey, I'm gonna sell you a share of the airplane for a dollar, now I can take you anywhere for price X" goes beyond the spirit of the law, and the FAA won't like that at all. Not that you're likely to ever get caught, but the truth is that he's doing it for enough people it could be "holding out," and providing an "air charter."
91k only applies if there is an aircraft interchange agreement so that more than one airplane can be shared.
 

skydisaster

Well-Known Member
I'm fuzzy on 91K (never really gone into it) do you have a reg number for me to reference? I'd be interested in seeing more.
91.1001 (b) (5) lists the requirements for an operation to be fractional. However, I would recommend that you just start from the top of 91 k and read the first few pages. It gives you a pretty good over view.

One interesting thing that you will find is that a lease with a purchase option is good enough. It does not have to be ownership.
 
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