Part 135 Cargo to Part 121 Major

akmountaineer

Well-Known Member
How possible is it to go from a 135 freight operation with PIC turbine time in a BE1900 or King Air to a 121 major airline? Is it possibile to make the jump directly, or is it necessary to get a 121 regional FO position for a short time to get 121 experience before getting on with a major?

Thanks!
 
This is a completly rookie opinion but,..

Im guessing it all depends on the timing. If a major is hiring like they were 2 years ago, and you know someone that can walk in your resume, then Im sure it all depends on how the interview goes.

If its in a time where they are only running 1 class a year, you may be out of luck.

At this point, time isnt going to matter at all anymore. By the time the big boys start hiring again everyone and their mother is going to have 1000hrs TPIC. Its going to come down to how many people you can get on the inside to put in a good word.
 
It's all about who you know and how many you know! Like said above, a 1000 turbine PIC will mean diddly squat when the mainlines start hiring again. Especially when there are so many layed off heavy iron pilots sitting around. Just look at all the Airborne Express and ASTAR pilots sitting around right now. They range anywhere from DC9 to 767 Captains and FO's!
 
It's all about who you know and how many you know! Like said above, a 1000 turbine PIC will mean diddly squat when the mainlines start hiring again. Especially when there are so many layed off heavy iron pilots sitting around. Just look at all the Airborne Express and ASTAR pilots sitting around right now. They range anywhere from DC9 to 767 Captains and FO's!

Flew with an FO a couple of weeks ago that was from DHL. Went from DHL to being a first year FO at PCL. He's got a side business that nets him a LOT more money. He said if it weren't for the health insurance, he wouldn't even be at PCL. Even then, he's weighing the option of getting an umbrella small business policy. He's a commuter, and PCL isn't really to friendly to those guys.
 
My OPINION only but I think if your long term goal is to work for a part 121 major, best get into a part 121 regional.

I think those who work at 135 cargo carriers will argue otherwise, and there is always the exception to the rule... but you really truly need insanely good timing, luck, and recommendations to make the 135 - 121 major transition.

This is even more true lately where we have seen more and more majors want jet / heav(ier) aircraft time, especially true with foreign airlines. You have limited to non-existent options on how to get that time at a part 135 company.

So is it possible? Yeah. But is it the best option, if a 121 major is your goal? I don't think so.
 
Also, I left a 135 company after 2 years, and in the 2.5yrs since I now have a MUCH better schedule, great travel benefits, and make about the same $ I would have made there... even if I had 4.5yrs seniority. With jet time I now also meet the mins for a few gigs that I would not have qualified for otherwise.

Due to the economy I'm basically 'stuck' in my present position - which is fine. But on the whole I seem to be happier with my job and schedule than a buddy of mine who chose to stay at the 135 company, and had about the same seniority.
 
I know a guy that went from 135 B1900 straight to a major. He didn't know anyone there so they must have hired him because he was right for the job.
 
Whatever you decide to do, make sure you have 1,000 PIC turbine before you leave your 135 job. It is very important with quite a few carriers these days...Southwest, Virgin America, and JetBlue (I think) to name a few.

I'm not a recruiter, so this is my opinion only, but I think that if you are comparing 135 to 121 it shouldn't make a difference if it's turbine. The only thing you would be lacking as 135 is CRM experience, however the majors are quite happy hiring military pilots with no CRM experience also. I know military training is looked at differently, but you get my drift.

If you're happy where you are and make a decent wage, I would stay there. The embarrassing wages for a new commuter pilot is ridiculous. When I worked for the commuters my parents had to give me money each month to help pay my rent and expenses, even with 2 roommates, because my wages wouldn't cover it.

I think quality of time (turbine PIC) is the most important thing to consider. With the stagnation of the industry now, you could be stuck for many years as an F/O at a commuter not getting PIC. However if you have over 1000 PIC turbine in the 1900 or King Air already, it might be a nice change of pace to fly a regional jet. The training will also get you ready for the "drinking from a firehose" approach most airlines use.

Whatever you choose, now is not a good time to change jobs. The furloughs have not ended.

Good luck!
 
IMO, if you've only got 1000 TPIC, you're probably still gonna be waiting a while. With the stagnation of the last year (and it'll probably be longer than that by the time it's over), every one and their pet rabbit is gonna have 1000 TPIC time. It's a minimum, but that's it. Most of the people applying for the few major jobs that are gonna open up are gonna have well over 1000 TPIC. I personally think it's gonna be the networking and connections that get you an interview when things pick back up. Then it's up to you to sell yourself in the interview.

I see too many guys at my current place that thing their phone is gonna start ringing when they block in on that 1000th hour of TPIC.
 
I fly 135 cargo in a crew environment. Im not leaving till I have my 1000 tpic and meet the mins for the places I want to go. LOTS of guys have gone from my company to Delta, FedEx, UPS, Northwest, Emirates, etc. I have heard from many many interviewers that it's what differentiates you from the other guys that will guarantee setting you apart in the interview and making you shine. It truly does not matter if you are 135 single pilot, 135 crew, 121 or part 91 corporate job. Everyone is checking the same boxes on the applications and meeting the requirements. If the interviewer finds something he has in common with you whether you have flown the same airplanes (which is a good possibility, esp if you are flying an older airplane that was a commuter 10-15 years ago), went to the same college, live in the same town, enjoy doing some of the same things and know the same people. It all comes down to how personable you are and who you know in some cases. I can almost guarantee when everyone starts hiring again, everyone will not only have the mins, but they will have the "competitive" mins to keep them in the same playing field as everyone else interviewing no matter your background. So keep flying your CRJ's, Metros, Citations, Lears, Jetstreams, Convairs, Falcons, Shorts, 1900's or whatever and dont let someone say the airplane you fly wont count because in the end they all qualify as ME Turbine and each one of us is working hard and towards the same goal.
 
IMO, if you've only got 1000 TPIC, you're probably still gonna be waiting a while. With the stagnation of the last year (and it'll probably be longer than that by the time it's over), every one and their pet rabbit is gonna have 1000 TPIC time. It's a minimum, but that's it. Most of the people applying for the few major jobs that are gonna open up are gonna have well over 1000 TPIC. I personally think it's gonna be the networking and connections that get you an interview when things pick back up. Then it's up to you to sell yourself in the interview.

I see too many guys at my current place that thing their phone is gonna start ringing when they block in on that 1000th hour of TPIC.

Have you hit 1000 yet?
 
Have you hit 1000 yet?

HA! HA! HA!......<gasp> HA! HA! HA!


I haven't even been flying a year on the line yet. It'll be a year in May. If I were a lineholder, I'd probably be hitting 1000 right as the year rolled around. As it is, I'm sitting around 400.
 
Yes, at one point that was possible. I'm imagining the next time the majors hire, the competition will be fierce. So do everything under the sun to make yourself qualified.
 
And remember, 1000 is a MINIMUM. The average applicant at Alaska has 3000-5000 hours.

Of TPIC?

I'll tell you the guys that freakin' have it MADE; guys that were hired at Continental about 3 years ago. It only took 2 years to hold captain on the 737 in Newark, and if you've got 3 years in at CAL you can hold a 757/767 line out of Newark flying across the pond. As soon as their contract stops sucking, these guys are going to be living the good life.

Justin would have to back me up on the numbers, but how many did they hire in that 2-3 year period? 800 plus? 1,100? It was a HUGE number. The guys that got those jobs had to slog it out at the regionals through 9/11, but if they made it to the other end they hit the freakin' jackpot.
 
Of TPIC?

I'll tell you the guys that freakin' have it MADE; guys that were hired at Continental about 3 years ago. It only took 2 years to hold captain on the 737 in Newark, and if you've got 3 years in at CAL you can hold a 757/767 line out of Newark flying across the pond. As soon as their contract stops sucking, these guys are going to be living the good life.

Justin would have to back me up on the numbers, but how many did they hire in that 2-3 year period? 800 plus? 1,100? It was a HUGE number. The guys that got those jobs had to slog it out at the regionals through 9/11, but if they made it to the other end they hit the freakin' jackpot.

There are currently just over 1500 guys that were hired post 9/11 on the senoiority list including those furloughed. Thats in a list (including furloughs) of 4900 pilots.
 
Does that include RD of AMF? You know who I'm talking about??

I don't know him, but I know of him. ACP of some base, right?

He'd be in that list. I think he got hired there around the time I came on property at Amflight.
 
and if you've got 3 years in at CAL you can hold a 757/767 line out of Newark flying across the pond. As soon as their contract stops sucking, these guys are going to be living the good life.

Hehe, I did that after two months on the line at Delta (out of JFK, however). I have a good buddy doing just that at CAL right now (the former CA Rep of LEC175 when I was FO Rep). He was hired there about four years ago while I was hired at Delta 1.5 years ago. He hates me now because I fly less but make than him. :banghead: :p
 
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