Owning vs Renting
- Thread starter mrivc211
- Start date
amorris311
Well-Known Member
That's not the airplane to learn in.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Plenty of people have learned in them. Usually just takes longer. Expect 60-70 hours instead of 40 for a private. Frankly, if he's going to be flying it, I'd rather him start from scratch and learn right from the beginning how to fly complex rather than spending 40 hours in a fixed gear plane and then having to transition. Law of primacy and all that.
amorris311
Well-Known Member
True but that's a lot of airplane for someone that has never flown before. I'd suggest a 172 or the like for a few hours and get the basics. Then if it seems that there is a good grasp of the fundamentals then transition to the mooney.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Thanks for the advice, but no. 
knot4u
Repeat Offender
I have thrown this question of aircraft ownership around in my head for a number of years. As a pilot/A&P I can tell you the maintenance and insurance was the road block for me because this is the largest expense in aircraft ownership. You have another added layer of liability called using the aircraft for hire in which means your maintenance is mandatory. A private pilot using his or her own plane can skip it whereas some maintenance technicians will simply not sign the aircraft off as airworthy. One other thing I would consider is the cost of some parts for the repairs cost as much as a good used car. Good Luck with this one.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
I worked at MAPD, students started off from the get go in the A36 Bonanza, a much higher performance aircraft than his Mooney. No one ever geared them up, not even once. It was a great airplane to learn on, if you don't know what you're missing in a 172. The solo time did take a bit longer, typical for me was in the 25 hour range. Lowest time was 20 hours, but he was sharp. However the vast majority finished the private in the 45-55 hour range which is typical for most in a 172. Going through the program, guys would get the Multi in a Baron and come out with the comm sing/multi inst in right around 200 hours (141).
Keep in mind the A36 is a 300 hp complex aircraft seating six. And it was do-able in a civilian program...
FlyingScot
Spanish Proficient
As mentioned keep in mind the cost of insurance and that any incident with your airplane that takes a while to get fixed means you are unemployed until it is back up and running. I owned my own back when I was instructing, ended up with a few planes. I did the majority of the MX myself under an A&Ps supervision, while saving tons of money I was not making any money those days I was wrenching. Also include the time you spend on the phone or web searching for a deal on the part to get your plane flying again. As my business expanded I had more private clients with their own planes and owning my own planes became more trouble than it was worth. If your student can rent a plane and you make money every hour you spent in a classroom or aircraft seat, you may be farther ahead in the end.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
As someone who spends a lot of time getting intimately familiar with what it costs to operate airplanes, I'd say beyond a shadow of a doubt that if God meant man to own airplanes, he'd have given him way more money.
F
Flying Saluki
Guest
If you treat the airplane strictly as a teaching tool, and not as a profit center, it might be worthwhile. Charge the student a dry rate, enough to cover the operating expenses. When you park at the end of the lesson, the student pays to top off the airplane (i.e. the money goes to the fuel company, not to you). You might be able to attract some additional business if you can get a lower rate that the club or FBO.
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
This is pretty much how it works out where I rent. Rates are dry, and you're required to top off the airplane after every flight. Fuel is on a cost-club rate with the airport. Given that fuel prices are so low right now, it costs considerably less to rent airplanes from my school with their monthly "club block rate" and the "club rate" for fuel. Combined, I'm getting a 172N (which isn't pretty but flies well) with a G430 for right around $100-110 an hour. That's WAY cheaper than anywhere else in this area.
z987k
Well-Known Member
Ya, I think our insurance prices are similar and I think I have the most ground looped aircraft ever. I can't see 9k for a 172 with solos.
Also, something to think about for the OP, but there is no requirement to insure an airplane under 91.
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
True. And you can insure liability to others and leave out the hull insurance (which is the most expensive part of the aircraft policies I've seen). Of course, the flip side is no insurance to fix the airplane from damage, whether caused by you, your students, or others. A viable alternative for some, not for others.
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
Renter basically carries a hull coverage section in their policy. Basically, if the renter mangles the airplane, the renter's hull coverage policy takes care of it because the owner's insurer WILL subrogate against the renter. This is how it works where I primarily rent now. I asked a forum question about this a few months ago, actually. Several people thought it was weird, but it's the policy there and I can't really complain too much.
There are other FBOs which do the opposite - Aviation Adventures here in the NoVA area has a no-subrogation clause on their policy for the renters. Renters don't have to carry hull coverage, and they won't be subrogated against in the event of a problem. The rental rates at AvAd are slightly higher than other places, but you get a lot of subtle bang for the buck - this is one of those things.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
The places around me require you to carry not only hull coverage as a renter, but also liability coverage. After I got all of the coverage that they requried, it was half of what the full coverage for an owned airplane was!
They probably heard about you and were concerned as their plane didn't have autopilot
....let's not forget, it is Georgia. The common phrase being Hold My Beer and Watch This!
texas_pilot
Well-Known Member
I soloed @ 25 hours ab initial in a new Mooney at MAPD 2nd Midland semester. After I left there were 2 gear ups and they went to 172's.