Overpriced Training

T

turbinesurgeon

New Member
I decided to post this for people interested in Westwind. I had a rotten experience there and I wish I had gone somewhere else to complete all of my training. They really milk people out when they need money, I was told by a check airman that when they need money they tighten the pass limitations on progress checks. They would quote 36,000 for the program but the best I had ever seen was someone complete it at 50,000 and he is a very good pilot. You might as well go to Embry Riddle for that kind of dough, at least you would get a degree. My bad experience there costed me a lot of extra money and I should have just left. The chief pilot did not have the spine to stand up to the director of standard when the director of standards was making my life hell. I would not recommend this school to anybody, besides the right seat direct program is full of problems, like the fact that they have over 80 instructors and not enough students to go around and if you do get a job, be carefull because they will fire you for any little reason. You can get the same ratings somewhere else for a lot less. Airlines don't care where you get your ratings at. Besides Westwind knows very little about Airlines and how they operate. If you are using VA benifits look out because they will misquote those too. All I have to say is buyer beware and don't look for refunds.
 
Do you have any specifics?

Were the extra costs due to more training apart from the syllabus? I'm sure they didn't give you one quote and then when you showed up did the switch-a-roo.
 
Here are some specifics, They quoted me the part 61 syllabus when they knew I needed to be 141 to receive VA benifits. They told me all of the program was VA approved, that was a lie. The 141 syllabus was costly. The cheif pilot offered me a new program to complete my MEI and CFII all in one check ride. I finished the program and the director of standards didn't agree with the new program and he also disliked the chief pilot so he made my life hell, he wouldn't let me pass my progress check until I agreed to separate the two ratings, and thats what I did which cost me an extra $3,000. I brought this to the attention of the Chief pilot which his suggestion was to tread lightly and just let it go. I brought it to the attention of the part owner of the school and he said the director of standard just has a passion for training and I shouldn't get between him and the chief pilot. I seen a lot of people run out of money because of incidents like this and its sad. I finished the program and left. I got a job teaching at a real school.
 
I'm not trying to be a meanie nor defend Westwind (of which I have zero experience with), but I'm just curious as to why you stayed so long?
 
At first it was ignorance and then it was the guarantee CFI job. But after the whole MEI/CFII ordeal I decided to take the check ride. After that they wanted me to take another progress check! I never returned. They dangle that CFI job like a carrot in front of your face, and it is very tempting since it is hard to get a CFI job in the valley. I couldn't work there because if I had a student that started to go through what I did I would tell him to go somewhere else that would treat him and his money better.
 
Okie doke!

Maybe someone over at Westwind (and I know you're reading this guys, I see the weblogs) can log in and clear it up.
 
I've read in their ads that they guarantee jobs as flight instructors, from what you said it sounds like there isn't such a good chance. Whats the catch on that?
 
I'm a student at Westwind. I understand some of Turbinesurgeons frustrations, but I think its important to remember that most "academy" flight schools have a sh*t load of problems. The price they advertise is the bare minimum and nobody will finish in that amount of money.

My biggest problems with Westwind are a lack of standards and professionalism.

STANDARDS: All the decision makers, some of the check airmen, and a few instructors love to preach "standards, standards, standards" but they don't/won't/can't hold up their end of the bargain. ex. They expect us to fly 6 days a week yet get mad at us when we can't because THEY don't enough planes to make that possible.

PROFESSIONALISM: It seems a lot of the check airman are only concerned about their wallet. The syllabus will list a 2 hour prog check, but the check airman will make it last 4 hours, taking most of the time to prove to you how much HE knows. I also have a hard time listening to a check airman( nothing more than a 600 hour glorified CFI) tell me "how it is at the airlines".

When a student is concerned and attempts to talk to someone about it, they are talked down to and told to "tread lightly".

Another crappy thing is the amount of cockiness around there. Its probably due to the amount of stripes on one's shoulders. Its really starting to create a caste system where you only associate with people of your own kind (student, private, instrument, etc....). I honestly feel that I'm viewed as "incompetent" until I start instructing, and not just concerning aviation. You can't even start a conversation with someone further along than you without them knowing way more than you about absolutely everything,

I try very hard to think positive about Westwind, and there are some good things, but its quickly getting overshadowed by all the bulsh*t.
 
Maybe I oughta drop by on one of my next days off and have a look-see around or something.
 
hey doug, if you do that you might want to stop at the local costume shop and get a disguise. if they see you coming they automatically throw out the red carpet. your a living legend in the flight training world.
grin.gif
 
One more thing, quite a few students seem to be oblivious to whats happenning, or they're drinkin' the Westwind kool aid. CFI's also have to do a lot of brown nosing to get students.
 
I have been saying it for months on this site. The funny thing is that when I approached the Chief "wanna be" pilot about the problems with STANDARDS or lack there of, and the problems with the aircraft, and all of the reveiw flights I had to do because the RG's were down ALL THE TIME, he told me to "TREAD LIGHTLY" and not to discuss the problems with the other students. I left after that one certificate. The school is a complete joke. Nothing but a Mom and Pop FBO with fancy shirts and "shorts"...ILS
 
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I think its important to remember that most "academy" flight schools have a sh*t load of problems. The price they advertise is the bare minimum and nobody will finish in that amount of money.



[/ QUOTE ]

Not entirely true. Almost all students who go to Flight Safety Academy finish up early, on time, on budget, or under budget. Safety quoted me $32,500 for the CIME program in 2000 and I finshed up in 5 months and $4,000 under budget. I am sure some other "reputable" schools like Riddle can do the same. BTW, I can speak of my experience at FSA and I can honestly say that from what I witnessed while I was there, every student was happy with the academy and there decision to be there. So not every school has the problems that Worstwind has.

Piston, how far along are you in your training? If I were you, I would leave and go to another school where you will be treated with respect and like a professional. Be careful though, they will say that you left because "you couldn't cut it" at there wonderful school where every instructor teaches the same maneuver a different way and they all think they are right and the other instructors are wrong. The Chief pilot will tell you as he did me, "there is no correct or one way to teach a maneuver". How about them standards?
grin.gif
...ILS
 
[ QUOTE ]
hey doug, if you do that you might want to stop at the local costume shop and get a disguise. if they see you coming they automatically throw out the red carpet. your a living legend in the flight training world.
grin.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Nah, I'm just a regular dude! I don't walk around in an orange pullover grumbling mantra like the Dali Lama!
 
I finished about $4000 under budget as well at FSI. I have no complaints about it and I loved my experience.
 
Probably shouldn't be posting this in the Westwind forum, but hey I've come in under time and under budget too. I don't have the exsact figures cause I'm still doing the program, but I can tell you that I'm around 2 months ahead of schedule and somewhere around $2000 under budget thus far. Seriously if your serious about a professional career as a pilot, training is no place to be cutting corners.
 
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