Overflying Class C or D airspace VFR

[rhs]

Re: Flight Following

Thanks for the bump, MikeD!

I always ask for flight following just because (as another poster said) it's nice to have another set of eyes.

My initial callup is a simple 'Houston Center, Skyhawk 858AT'. When they respond, I give location, altitude, destination, and request flight following. I have only been turned down (make that not answered) up around Harrisburg, PA in their TRSA. I always keep the scan going but I appreciate the traffic advisories. Plus, the handoffs to Approach at my Class B/C destinations are usually cleaner because they already know who I am and where I'm going. Same goes for Tower.

 

[RiddlePilot]

Re: Flight Following

I can't tell you how many times I've been declined for flight following with Albuquerque Center. The trick I pull is to only say "Albuquerque Center, [callsign]" on initial call-up. The vast majority of the time I'll actually get my request in instead of "[callsign], if this is for VFR advisories, I'm busy. Call back in 15."

Another good reason to file IFR if you want Big Brother watchin ya!

EDIT: I belong to the MikeD school of thought on talking with ATC anyways. I'll often monitor the appropriate freqs to build SA, but if I don't have to talk to 'em, I generally won't.

 

[carlos]

Re: Flight Following

When asking for VFR traffic advisories or flight following, you should mention what you want on the initial callup. That is, say something like "Atlanta Center, Cessna 123RP requesting VFR Flight Following." That way, the controller knows immediately that you are VFR and what you want without having to key the mic again to say "Go ahead". This can be especially helpful when the controller is busy. If they don't have the time to accomodate you, they don't have to waste any time on several transmissions figuring out what you want before telling you they can't help you.

I suggest that people read the ATC columns by Don Brown on AvWeb. He covers this specific issue in this column. You can find all his columns here.

 

[Windchill]

Re: Flight Following

Everytime I go on a cross-country I request flight following and Potomac Approach has been very accomodating each time.

My instructor taught me to use my resources to help out with a flight, and he gave me an acronym when making that intitial call-up.

ITPAID "It-Paid"
"Potomac Approach . . . This is
I-IDENTIFICATION: Skyhawk XXXXX
T-TYPE OF AIRCRAFT: C-172
P-POSITION: 5 miles east of KXXX
A-ALTITIUDE: 2000 transitioning to 5500
I-INTENTIONS: Request open flight plan (if ADIZ-if not open w/ FSS prior to call-up for flight following) and/or request flight following
D-DESTINATION: KXXX

They'll usually tell me to standby, and they'll get right back with me with a squawk code.

It's great, always alerting me of traffic, if I drift they'll vector me back on course.

I do understand it's a workload issue and they don't necessarily HAVE to help ME, and I appreciate their assistance!

 

[bluelake]

Re: Flight Following

Getting told to standby each time you cold call up using ITPAID should not be surprising, cuz they probably never even got hardly of it downn. and figured he could spot you on the scope easier than re-asking for that.

I am definiteloy in the group of people who prefer short call-ups, like "Oakland Center, Skyhawk 62LU, VFR Request", and leaving it to that. I even do that on practice instrument approaches.

I gotta admit, I dont fly in too many areas lately where I have to down-play my VFR-ness in order to get service, but I still think its kind of a matter of respect.

I have heard this over the frequency here in my home base"

"Uhhhhhhhhhh Ooooaaakkland Cennnter...this is Cessna 12345, were uhhh skyhawk slant uniform.. and uhh.. well, were off of benton here about five miles west of Romeo Delta Delta... were climbing at two thousand five hundred and forty and we are going to cruise at fiver thousand and five hundred to sacremento executive.. thats sierra alpha charlie... we would like to get flight following..., over"

 

[RiddlePilot]

Re: Flight Following

[ QUOTE ]
"Uhhhhhhhhhh Ooooaaakkland Cennnter...this is Cessna 12345, were uhhh skyhawk slant uniform.. and uhh.. well, were off of benton here about five miles west of Romeo Delta Delta... were climbing at two thousand five hundred and forty and we are going to cruise at fiver thousand and five hundred to sacremento executive.. thats sierra alpha charlie... we would like to get flight following..., over"

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like the old Capflight pilots.

 

[Windchill]

Re: Flight Following

I don't know if I got the wrong thing across, but when I first call up . . . I do just say:

Me: "Potomac Aproach, Skyhawk XXXXX"
and wait for "XXXXX, go ahead" then go w/ ITPAID.

Get their attention first, then when they're ready I give 'em the info.

 

[Jeff_S_KDTW]

Re: Flight Following

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know if I got the wrong thing across, but when I first call up . . . I do just say:

Me: "Potomac Aproach, Skyhawk XXXXX"
and wait for "XXXXX, go ahead" then go w/ ITPAID.

Get their attention first, then when they're ready I give 'em the info.

[/ QUOTE ]That's better.

 

[bluelake]

Re: Flight Following

agreed

And, RiddlePilot if you are referring to old Civil Air Patrol pilots then you you have nailed it exactly. Aviation is small and Redding CA aviation is smaller, so I will just leave it there

 

[kellwolf]

Re: Flight Following

This was my fav that I heard on Orlando App:

Pilot : "Orlando Approach, Cessna 1234. I'm uh, at 2000 feet and, uh, about, uh, 10 miles weeee, uh, east of Lakeland. I'd like to get flight following."
Orlando Approach: "Roger, Cessna 1234. Squawk 4321 and ident."
Pilot: "Uh. Um. How do you....ident?"

 

[RiddlePilot]

Re: Flight Following

[ QUOTE ]
And, RiddlePilot if you are referring to old Civil Air Patrol pilots then you you have nailed it exactly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think a requisite to flying for CAP is 70+ years old, and you cannot, ABSOLUTELY, have your IFR charts on board, especially after you've taken down your clearance. If you're VFR, it's absolutely imperative that you forget all landmarks around your local area prior to flight.

[ QUOTE ]
This was my fav that I heard on Orlando App:

Pilot : "Orlando Approach, Cessna 1234. I'm uh, at 2000 feet and, uh, about, uh, 10 miles weeee, uh, east of Lakeland. I'd like to get flight following."
Orlando Approach: "Roger, Cessna 1234. Squawk 4321 and ident."
Pilot: "Uh. Um. How do you....ident?"

[/ QUOTE ]

My favorite was the guy reading his takeoff checklist on the tower freq after bein' cleared for takeoff. After he finally un-keyed the mic, there was dead silence for a few seconds while everyone on the freq gasped for air after laughing so hard.

Oh, whoa, I'm off topic.

 

[pscraig]

Re: Flight Following

That's a tremendous amount of information for a controller to handle on initial callup. I use the "Potomac Approach, Seminole 123AT" as initial callup, then give them the rest when they get back to me. I have to do this every time I come home, as RIC is class C airspace.



[ QUOTE ]
Everytime I go on a cross-country I request flight following and Potomac Approach has been very accomodating each time.

My instructor taught me to use my resources to help out with a flight, and he gave me an acronym when making that intitial call-up.

ITPAID "It-Paid"
"Potomac Approach . . . This is
I-IDENTIFICATION: Skyhawk XXXXX
T-TYPE OF AIRCRAFT: C-172
P-POSITION: 5 miles east of KXXX
A-ALTITIUDE: 2000 transitioning to 5500
I-INTENTIONS: Request open flight plan (if ADIZ-if not open w/ FSS prior to call-up for flight following) and/or request flight following
D-DESTINATION: KXXX

They'll usually tell me to standby, and they'll get right back with me with a squawk code.

It's great, always alerting me of traffic, if I drift they'll vector me back on course.

I do understand it's a workload issue and they don't necessarily HAVE to help ME, and I appreciate their assistance!

[/ QUOTE ]

 

[Jeff_S_KDTW]

Re: Flight Following

[ QUOTE ]
That's a tremendous amount of information for a controller to handle on initial callup. I use the "Potomac Approach, Seminole 123AT" as initial callup, then give them the rest when they get back to me. I have to do this every time I come home, as RIC is class C airspace.

[/ QUOTE ]A couple posts down from that one, he clarified that he doesn't use ITPAID during the "initial" callup.

 

[MikeD]

Re: Flight Following

Is the info contained in ITPAID required for ops within the DC ADIZ? Seems a bit much, but then again, I don't fly in that area so I'm not familiar.

 

[SteveC]

Re: Flight Following

[ QUOTE ]
That's a tremendous amount of information for a controller to handle on initial callup. I use the "Potomac Approach, Seminole 123AT" as initial callup, then give them the rest when they get back to me. I have to do this every time I come home, as RIC is class C airspace.

[/ QUOTE ]
One hint, add "VFR request" (reference bluelake's post above) or "request radar services" or "VFR landing" or something similar on the initial call-up. That way the controller knows right off the bat that you are someone new and a rough idea of what you want. Then he/she doesn't haven't to search all over his scope for you while he is in a (momentary) panic trying to remember who he just vectored towards a final approach course and forgot about, or if he accepted a hand-off from another sector and promptly forgot, or whatever. Some of those guys handle so much traffic every hour that they could easily forget the call sign of someone they're working without going back and having to take a quick look at all of the tags

That little bit of additional information on the initial call will give the controller enough of a heads-up that they can make a spot decision on how to answer you, and could very well save an additional transmission. He could give you a squawk code while asking for your intentions, or he could ask you to stand-by until he has a free second to work you into the system.

 

[Windchill]

Re: Flight Following

As with I hope everyone on here, I welcome advice like that, and will take the advice of adding "VFR Request" or "Request Radar Services" to my initial call up to help ATC out. I'll try and get that into my routine when I make these trips.

 

[Windchill]

Re: Flight Following

MikeD, I'm not sure if ALL of that info is required, it's how I was taught though so I go with it, seems to cover the essentials of who I am, where I'm at, what I'm trying to get and where I'm trying to go.

So long as one saying it knows what to say, it's pretty concise. ATC's never said that I could lose any of it or that it's a bit much--so I stick with it.

 

[Jeff_S_KDTW]

Re: Flight Following

[ QUOTE ]
MikeD, I'm not sure if ALL of that info is required, it's how I was taught though so I go with it, seems to cover the essentials of who I am, where I'm at, what I'm trying to get and where I'm trying to go.

[/ QUOTE ]You're right on. So long as we stick with the Who you're calling; Who you are; Where you are; and What you want model, we will be okay in most situations.

You are also correct that there is no specific cookie-cutter set forth in the AIM illustrating how we should request VFR advisories. However, Don Brown's column referenced numerous times above is illustrative:[ QUOTE ]
"Atlanta Center, Cessna 12345 requesting VFR advisories."

That serves to get my attention. It's short and lessens the chance that you'll transmit at the same time someone else is transmitting. It's just a good idea, period. Once I'm off the landline, I'll say, "Calling Atlanta Center, say again." You, realizing that Center controllers are slow, will say, "Atlanta Center, Cessna 12345 requesting VFR advisories." I'll hit the CODE key on my keyboard, type in N12345 and press ENTER. Seeing as it's me doing the typing, I'll go back and make sure I really hit the CODE key this time, type in N12345 and press ENTER. (I always said I could be a great controller if I could just learn to type.) The computer will spit out a beacon code and I'll say, "Cessna 12345 squawk 3231 and go ahead."

This is where it gets a little fuzzy. The students I've talked to want to know exactly what to say. I've searched the AIM but haven't found any format that is preferred. If you find it, write me and let me know where it is. In the absence of guidance from the book, this is what I recommend:

"November 12345, a Cessna 172, 20 miles northeast of Sugarloaf Mountain, level VFR seven thousand five hundred, en route to Winston-Salem, North Carolina."

For those who like to write lists, it would look like this:

1) FULL callsign;
2) Type aircraft;
3) Current location;
4) Current altitude and altitude to which you are climbing/descending; and,
5) Destination.

There is a method behind my madness. Most Center controllers will find this format comfortable and oddly familiar. That's because it's the format that the flight plan is written on a flight progress strip.



[/ QUOTE ]

 

[Nutmeg_Pilot]

Re: Flight Following

Using NY Approach, I can say they have been very accomodating. Have only been turned down once (out of probably 30-40 callups), and that was during prime time busy time one Saturday afternoon. Initial callup with callsign, then followup with the full info seems to work best with the good guys at NY.

They are also fairly accomodating with VFR flight through the Class Bravo.....as long as you don't fly TOO low or take the grand tour down the Hudson River near the Statue of Liberty.......

 

[MikeD]

Re: Flight Following

[ QUOTE ]
"November 12345, a Cessna 172, 20 miles northeast of Sugarloaf Mountain, level VFR seven thousand five hundred, en route to Winston-Salem, North Carolina."



[/ QUOTE ]

Still too much crap to say on an initial call-up, prior to establishing comms. Depending on the frequency congestion, all you may get is a "calling xxx approach, say again."

Try:

"Approach, N12345"

"N12345 xxx approach, say request"

"N245 (location) (request)"

That'll serve better. People need remember the mindset that the controller isn't always "at the ready" on the freq, he may be on the landline, etc.