Our first flight just left!

I wonder if there are any former FLYi employees that feel the case of deja vu when they look at what we're doing. I certainly feel this is different. Bob is absolutely right.
 
WestIndian425 said:
I wonder if there are any former FLYi employees that feel the case of deja vu when they look at what we're doing. I certainly feel this is different.
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A few ACA employee and pilot comments from our "other" site:

Being a former employee of ACA/ACJet leaving the company before flyI I can assure you all that what ExpressJet is doing is head over heals better then the approach that ACA/flyI took. First off, 75% of our revenue is still comming from CAL and we did not tell CAL to go F*** themselves. Also who are we compeating with and look at the route structure. FlyI was doing a hub and spoke system out of IAD going head to head with United and they did not have the A320's on line to the money markets at the initial start up. Also look at our management team vs. Tom Moore and Kerry Skeen. Moore and Skeen had a good company ACA and broke it by turning a regional structure into a major. Jim Ream (XJT CEO) and the other folks that are a few pay grades above us have been looking into this for a bit and they are not going to lead us on a kamakazi mission. Be positive and if this does not work out we are not out of jobs because we still are flying for CAL and possiby some other major in the future. I am excited for what ExpressJet is doing not scared like how I was over at ACA.
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I think things will be fun to watch the next few years. XJT still has lots of other places that will make them money unlike FLYI. They can play with this model for a couple of years and it will have to lose lots of money to really put XJT in any danger other than a stock price hit. I don't think they will be able to turn a 10% margin with this business, but even if they break even, they will be better off than going after a CPA that was going to turn a 4% margin. Lots of startup costs will hit the operation over the first year so that may be tough. I think this will be a long term airline that could really help connect small cities that LCC's can't seem to make money in. The only problem is once XJT builds up the market, then the LCC's will sneak in and XJT won't be able to compete with a 50 seat jet. It is a much better plan that FLYI had and I think it will also be executed better. I wouldn't worry too much... The Q400's and CHQ would have me worried more than the branded flying.
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Captain_Bob said:
Your arguement is true and factual... for EVERY regional carrier that exists today. They'd all be toast without their "legacy".
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Correct. I've even heard one CEO say, "You can't make money with a 70 seat RJ unless you contract it out." Fee for service is alive and well. The CPA is VERY valuble to Xjet.

However, in the words of our CEO: "We had a choice to make... we could choose to be a glorified staffing agency... or we could choose to be a real airline... all things considered, I choose the latter."
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Brave words and good intentions. However, as the boys at FlyI found out, a CASM of $.12 doesn't cut it in today's airline industry. As long as the CPA is supporting Xjet, and the dollars keep rolling in from CAL, you'll be OK. However, you might want to keep in mind where the real money is coming from...Hint: it isn't from your SAT-ONT service yet.

But... if one is going to start a new airline... you've got to admit... it's a great way of doing so by having someone else pick up the bill...
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I believe I just said that. Look, I'm not being that critical...this whole thread got going with the factual observation that you had excess capacity that you were tossing into new markets. Some of your compadres took that as a slam. It was simply an observation. If it works, great. However, given the recent history of RJ operators who attempted to "go it alone" the outlook is, to say the least, questionable.

Every start up business starts out with costs that are greater than returns... especially an airline...we just asking that you please be patient while we make an attempt to change things for the better in the aviation industry... and give us a small amount of props for at least "trying".
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Change things for the better? Its a nice pipe dream. You're trying to compete with an airplane that can't pay its own bills. Offer all the amenities you want, but the bottom line is that $.12 CASM that's going to sink your ship without some legacy CPA supporting you. Believe me, NO ONE is going to use FlyI, Xjet or any other RJ operator as a template for "making the aviation industry better."

If anything, the U.S. domestic structure will go the Japanese route...widebodies for domestic service. RJs will now and forever be relegated to the backwaters of the business. CPA and EAS subsidies are the only thing keeping RJs out of Marana, Mojave and Goodyear.

I will, however, give you credit for being enthusiastic about your Company. Most of the FlyI guys were the same until long after the writing was on the wall.

Best of luck. Hope your chocolate bunny was tasty.
 
Velocipede said:
If anything, the U.S. domestic structure will go the Japanese route...widebodies for domestic service. RJs will now and forever be relegated to the backwaters of the business.
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Ha! :yup: Did you just get a job as an A380 salesman and take a big gulp of Koolaid? Snort a line of it maybe?

Velocipede said:
CPA and EAS subsidies are the only thing keeping RJs out of Marana, Mojave and Goodyear.
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Name one EAS route served by an RJ. I don't think there are any.

Sorry if it's not true, but you sure do fit the profile of an '83 CAL hire. Did a couple of our captains deny you the jumpseat? You sure are going out of your way to be a turd about all of this.

Mike
 
Mike,

Velo's offered his POV for a spirited debate. Nothing wrong with that. There are a lot of points that he made that make sense. Yes, we will have to work on our CASM... Yes, we will need to see Load Factors in the 80 percentile to start seeing some green.

Thank you Velo for the comments and keeping the thread alive. Both sides make good points... it's a never-ending argument that both seem to want to win. He wins if we go under... we win if we make it work.

There's no doubt we have an uphill battle. Nobody is denying it. We could argue the finer points ad-nauseum... but in the end... it comes down to what every other prediction in the aviation business does... "Nobody knows... and it could change overnight." From here on out it comes down to opinions... and that will always get peoples feathers ruffled every time.

Velo... my bunny was tasty... thank you.

Bob
 
"SWA does it with 737s and no amenities"

SWA doesn't fly GEG-ONT nonstop. I'm an MVP Gold on AS and I'd take the RJ non-stop vs AS through PDX or SEA....if I was payin'.

That said, I would think it would not be a good idea for Xjet to try to compete with SWA in a non-stop market unless they could keep the fares significantly lower.
 
DE727UPS said:
That said, I would think it would not be a good idea for Xjet to try to compete with SWA in a non-stop market unless they could keep the fares significantly lower.
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Agreed... I don't think we are in a position... nor are we wanting to put ourselves in a position to really go "head to head" with anyone right now. We may have a route or two in the system that is a duplicate to another larger carrier... but that is the exception and not the rule.

We've kinda "snuck in" to some routes that are proving to be successful enough that now there is some response ramping to those routes by other carriers... but at least we didn't go in and try to pi** them off first.

But yeah... we don't need a fare war with anyone right now... and from what the higher ups are saying... we won't get in one. Right now we are actually higher than some of the legacies on some city pairs... but for the extra percentage of fare increase, you get "Direct" with a few perks thrown in.

Bob
 
Captain_Bob said:
Thank you Velo for the comments and keeping the thread alive. Both sides make good points... it's a never-ending argument that both seem to want to win. He wins if we go under... we win if we make it work.
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Its not a question of win/lose. And, I don't think XJT is going anywhere. However, I do think you'll end up parking between 40 and 60 jets unless the boss finds another CPA customer.
 
Alright folks.

Let's all cross our fingers for XJET because we've got a lot of users at JC who work there.

In the big picture, we all know what mom 'n dad said about when you don't have anything good to say... ;)
 
Bustin out the DT rule book!:yar:

4. Be kind to your fellow user.
Take it outside, folks, this isn't cage fighting and 99.9% of the rest of us don't care that you two can't get along on a personal level.
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Velocipede said:
Off the top of my head I can name you six that are served by 737s! It appears that you are one of the folks upset by facts since you resort to name calling quite quickly.
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In Alaska, sure, different world up there. 737s still aren't RJs. Back to my original question: Name one EAS route served by an RJ. Your argument was that RJ's are so uneconomical that they need to be subsidized by EAS and CPAs. I don't dispute the part about CPAs, but name one EAS route served by an RJ. Just the facts please.
 
I'll say one thing about the folks at XJET, most of you love the place you work at. Pretty rare in the regional industry. I know 6 or 7 guys I went to school with there and they all love it and it seems like everyone here that works at XJET has the same sentiments. Either they serve the Koolaide mighty strong over there or just maybe it's a good place to work :D .
I think those that comment words of caution that things may not be as good as they appear only say this to make sure you guys have your heads on a swivel and don't believe everything handed down from the suits. Just because someone is cautious doesn't mean they are bitter or represent an unrespected pilot group of years past.
Regardless of everything good luck to you guys and at the very least you are turning heads with the toothpaste tubes.:rawk:
 
mikecweb said:
I'll say one thing about the folks at XJET, most of you love the place you work at. Pretty rare in the regional industry. I know 6 or 7 guys I went to school with there and they all love it and it seems like everyone here that works at XJET has the same sentiments. Either they serve the Koolaide mighty strong over there or just maybe it's a good place to work :D .
I think those that comment words of caution that things may not be as good as they appear only say this to make sure you guys have your heads on a swivel and don't believe everything handed down from the suits. Just because someone is cautious doesn't mean they are bitter or represent an unrespected pilot group of years past.
Regardless of everything good luck to you guys and at the very least you are turning heads with the toothpaste tubes.:rawk:
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Thank you sir for your well wishes!
 
Velocipede said:
Its not a question of win/lose. And, I don't think XJT is going anywhere. However, I do think you'll end up parking between 40 and 60 jets unless the boss finds another CPA customer.
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I don't see the point of coming on a message board (especially an upbeat, friendly one like the member announcements section of this board) and telling everyone who works at expressjet how Doooooomed they are. Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought this is supposed to be a supportive/congratulatory forum (chris ford's fatherhood thread not withstanding), not a place where you come to rain on people's parade. I don't think the pilots and rampers on this thread are going to be able to change the business plan. Like a few before me have said, I think everyone who works at xjet realizes the independent flying may not work, and we'll cross that road if we get there. The reason you are getting some annoyed responses to your negativity is because we've been hearing this same thing for over a year. Enough already! We know about independence air, we know about RJ CASM, we can't change history, we can't change economics, and we're at the mercy of our managment when it comes to business decisions.

I, for one, was a huge doom and gloomer when the announcment was made that 69 airplanes were going to be transferred to another regional carrier for CO. Initially I was very critical of our management for failing to extend the agreement with continental. Ultimately I realized that the only way to really reduce costs at this airline to CO's satisfaction is to either come after labor or skimp on maintenance, and I definitely don't want to see either one of those things happen. What's done is done, and there's no reason to dwell on the past....as employees all we can do is forge onward.

In the mean time I see no reason for the added negativity. Xjet employees are going to do their job enthusiastically, and if it doesn't work, well at least we had fun while it lasted and did something we could be proud of: getting people from point A to point B safely, on time, and with their underware (to borrow a gordonism). On the plus side I get a base close(r) to home. My attitude toward the whole thing is: Enjoy it while it lasts.
 
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