Osprey Crash

[dustoff17]

My father, an Osprey program manager, would agree with your statement if he were still alive. He was working on a book on the subject before his death. I’ve shared his notes with a number of writers that have showed interest in the subject.

Among his favorite talking points was his disbelief that the A-12 was cancelled and the V-22 survived.

While it’s easy to blame Bell-Boeing for all the problems with the V-22 program, the untold story is the incompetence at NAVAIR, with its revolving door of LCDR’s that had a poor understanding of engineering and defense contracting. Think about it, while the USAF managed ground-breaking aircraft like the F-117, B-2, F-22, and F-35 (yeah, I know), the Navy only succeeded with low-risk programs like the Hornet, Super Hornet, and Growler.

The untold story is that Boeing didn’t really give a damn about the Osprey and was surprised that it wasn’t cancelled.

Boeing had issues with training programs and thought that every V-22 unit would need a dozen tech reps. NAVAIR squelched these recommendations.

The Osprey is a problematic aircraft, primarily because NAVAIR was silent on what it would take to make it work. I’m holding my breath waiting for the first COD mishap.

YOU should write the book!

 

[Pilot Fighter]

YOU should write the book!

The notes are pretty dry, I don’t think I could bring them to life. There are a few gems. After one NAVAIR meeting, my father wrote, “I’m not sure LCDR Doe understands what makes planes fly”.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

Jointness isn’t a bad word. There have been a number of successful programs amongst all of the services. F-4 Phantom, UH-1 Huey, to name a few.

Accidents will unfortunately happen with revolutionary technology. Sometimes to one nation and their military more than others. AV-8A Harrier, USMC version, compared to the same GR1 version in RAF service, is a prime example. The USMC accident rate was high. Even though I like that small sized Harrier much more than the larger airframe it grew into as the B model.

Adaptation is certainly easier than a joint blank-sheet development program.

A-1, A-3 (B-66), F-4, A-7 were all mature designs adapted by the Air Force. Not a lot of jointiness in these programs.

The big joint programs that come to mind are the F-111 and F-35 programs. Those programs struggled.

Your Huey example is interesting in that it was primarily an Army program and it would have continued even if other branches dropped out. I believe that the Osprey program would have continued even if the Air Force bailed out. Maybe it needed the AF until production was guaranteed.

Until the maturity of ejection seats, test pilots died. It was the cost of doing business. Heck, until the 1980’s, accident rates were horrendous with mature designs.

 

[dustoff17]

The notes are pretty dry, I don’t think I could bring them to life. There are a few gems. After one NAVAIR meeting, my father wrote, “I’m not sure LCDR Doe understands what makes planes fly”.

LOL!

 

[killbilly]

2nd endorsement for The Dream Machine. Been about 10-12 years since I read it but I remember enjoying it.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

2nd endorsement for The Dream Machine. Been about 10-12 years since I read it but I remember enjoying it.

Just ordered it off Amazon. Thanks for the second push.

 

[killbilly]

I dunno - I'm kind of a fan of the V-22. I got to walk around in one at a static display at Andrews about 12 years ago (which is what drove me to the book) and chatted for a while with the pilot - a Marine who had "Trainwreck" embroidered on his flight suit. I was dying to know the origin of that call sign but was too polite to ask.

They're really cool/interesting birds.

If you've never seen/heard one, they make a unique, low thrumming sound. We'd see them running up and down the Potomac to/from Bolling or The Pentagon, presumably from either Davis or Quantico....I never knew for sure. For the first couple years we lived across the street from Nats park, when I'd hear them, I'd run out of the house and walk the block and a half to the river to see if I could spot them coming up. Was completely dorky but fun.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I don't have military experience, but I have a military background with the Osprey, playing it in Microsoft Flight Simulator - As Real As It Gets. And I'm fully qualified to make the statement, the Osprey sucks.

 

[///AMG]

the pilot - a Marine who had "Trainwreck" embroidered on his flight suit. I was dying to know the origin of that call sign but was too polite to ask.

If I had to hazard a guess, it is exactly what the callsign says. I doubt actual trains were involved

 

[Roger Roger]

If I had to hazard a guess, it is exactly what the callsign says. I doubt actual trains were involved

Actual trains, or actual trains?

 

[///AMG]

Actual trains, or actual trains?

Stick around long enough and you'll find out

 

[FlyingAccountant]

https://www.reddit.com/r/delta/s/Qcdob4fIJN

Looks like one of these guys came home today on Southernjets.

Respect.

 

[Murdoughnut]

On the subject of the COD, I thought this was a good video ...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GToUP8f8Tg

 

[dustoff17]

Latest update…

Osprey 'black box' from fatal Japan crash that killed 8 recovered with data intact, Air Force says

The Air Force has recovered the flight data recorder from the Air Force CV-22B Osprey that crashed off the coast of Japan in late November, and the data is intact — which could provide valuable clues for investigators as to what caused the crash.

apnews.com

 

[dustoff17]

The “important people” behind the desk have blessed the Osprey back into a fail-safe mode:

Pentagon Clears V-22 to Start Flying Again After Three-Month Grounding

Air Force Special Operations Command lifted the grounding order on its V-22 Osprey fleet after a three-month pause in flight ops.

www.airandspaceforces.com

 

[killbilly]

Additional story about this, slightly different info included for a more complete picture, too
(full disclosure: personal relationship with reporter)

Military's Ospreys are cleared to return to flight, 3 months after latest fatal crash in Japan

Japan says it'll join the U.S. military in returning its Ospreys to flight following the deaths of eight U.S. service members in a crash there in November. U.S.

apnews.com

 

[Pilot Fighter]

Additional story about this, slightly different info included for a more complete picture, too
(full disclosure: personal relationship with reporter)

Military's Ospreys are cleared to return to flight, 3 months after latest fatal crash in Japan

Japan says it'll join the U.S. military in returning its Ospreys to flight following the deaths of eight U.S. service members in a crash there in November. U.S.

apnews.com

The interesting question is whether the V-280 will survive

 

[killbilly]

The interesting question is whether the V-280 will survive

Assuming it has a good safety record, no reason why not?

Big difference: the whole nacelle doesn’t pivot on the 280. Curious about that from the engineering side.

 

[Oxman]

Just • can the entire program.

 

[dustoff17]

The interesting question is whether the V-280 will survive

I certainly hope it doesn’t!