ORD & MDW Aviation Police Officers not allowed to Carry guns ??!!

Seggy said:
Not sure what you mean by this.

Arizona is pretty gun friendly but that didn't stop the assassination attempt on a Congresswoman a few years ago.
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I just mean with the existing laws/ordnances in place in Chicago, right or wrong notwithstanding, it wouldn't be a surprise to see that city extending the removal of firearms to another entity. Just as it wouldn't be surprising in a number of other municipalities. Whereas in some other cities, it would indeed be a surprise to see.

Interestingly, in the Giffords assassination attempt, there was even a CCW carrying civilian who witnessed the struggle of the shooter on the ground, and another civilian who had taken the shooters gun. Unsure who was who, the CCW holder didn't draw his weapon or shoot, yet still went to wrestle the gun from the civilian holding it, until learning quickly that that person wasn't the assailant. Split second to make a decision, and good that he erred on the side of caution. Luckily, the assailant had indeed already been subdued.
 
MikeD said:
Unsure who was who, the CCW holder didn't draw his weapon or shoot, yet still went to wrestle the gun from the civilian holding it, until learning quickly that that person wasn't the assailant. Split second to make a decision, and good that he erred on the side of caution. Luckily, the assailant had indeed already been subdued.
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That can't be true -- we've been assured that CCW = "blood in the streets", "wild, wild west shootouts", etc. We've been told that CCW'ers are just wannabes who will shoot at the first possible opportunity and ask questions later.
 
Hacker15e said:
That can't be true -- we've been assured that CCW = "blood in the streets", "wild, wild west shootouts", etc. We've been told that CCW'ers are just wannabes who will shoot at the first possible opportunity and ask questions later.
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It was interesting seeing his interviews about how he erred on the side of caution.

Sadly though, guys like him who exercise good, sound judgement, get overshadowed by the ones like the Walmart parking lot shooter at the petty thief, or the shooter who intervened in the carjacking, hitting the victim, then picking up his brass and taking off.
 
Hacker15e said:
Yes, unfortunately there are idiots in all walks of life.
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Fortunately, however CCW permit holders seem to suspend the idiot while carrying, the vast majority of the time.

I think I'm ok with the contract security folks just reporting and running. Let the police or a well practiced CCW holder engage...... ;-)
 
Cazadores said:
Fortunately, however CCW permit holders seem to suspend the idiot while carrying, the vast majority of the time.

I think I'm ok with the contract security folks just reporting and running. Let the police or a well practiced CCW holder engage...... ;-)
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Did you read the story ? They are real police officers, not mall cops, get the facts !! they get the same salary, same training etc... They are just not armed while on duty at the airports..
And furthermore I don't know what you're talking about CCW, You can't CCW in the sterile zone.
I don't know much about Chicago CCW laws but I think it's very difficult to obtain one, so you're not gonna have a lots of armed citizens around.
Do you rather have a properly trained individual to respond or rely on some random guy who may not even hit an elephant 10ft away ? CCW holders are not required to be firearm trained as far as I know..
 
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melax said:
Did you read the story ? They are real police officers, not mall cops, get the facts !! they get the same salary, same training etc... They are just not armed while on duty at the airports..
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Youlax. It was a feeble limp wristed attempt at a joke, what with all the gun control CCW nonsense I am guilty of taking part in around here. Sarcasm and irony my dear, irony...maybe poorly executed.....
 
Cazadores said:
Youlax. It was a feeble limp wristed attempt at a joke, what with all the gun control CCW nonsense I am guilty of taking part in around here. Sarcasm and irony my dear, irony...maybe poorly executed.....
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Alright Man, I didn't get your joke, but seriously, something needs to be done to improve our Airports security in a real way. I still can't believe that TSA failed to detect offensive items in 95% of the tests !!
 
Meh....Armed cops in the airport wouldn't have stopped 9/11. Guns aren't going to be of much help against an explosive device in the airport. An armed officer isn't going to scare a terrorist into deciding not carrying out a plot. The TSA is a disgrace. It's about the appearance of protection. Not actually protecting.
 
melax said:
Alright Man, I didn't get your joke, but seriously, something needs to be done to improve our Airports security in a real way. I still can't believe that TSA failed to detect offensive items in 95% of the tests !!
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Agreed. Chasen tells a story I live fairly regularly, with the folks he is talking about all you need is a white guy in a leather jacket and bingo, ramp access. It's ridiculous. My feeling however is the people we're concerned about likely should never even get to the airport in the first place, and certainly shouldn't get to the secure area.

It's why I stay clear of the security checkpoint, it's in my opinion the most dangerous part of the journey.

Investigate, build a case, prosecute. It's how we work in this society. I'm happy we live with the risks associated. It's who we are. I just wish we would stop messing around with no fly lists, silly checkpoints, comply with our values and secure our way of life. Sadly aviation safety is as credible as Chertoff's corrupt body scanner bonus, and the asinine 300+ mass shooting comedy. It's designed to scare you, it's working.

CCW carriers generally are pretty well practiced and have good results by the way, and yes, in states requiring permits there are marksmanship requirements, often as stringent as police recurrent qualifying tests, not exactly tough. Just like the police, those who have an interest will practice and hone their skills. Those who volunteer exposure to the liability generally really want to, enjoy the practice, and are quite proficient.

Anyway, the humor was poorly executed, but I would argue arming the people in question means we are putting efforts in the wrong place. If we're relying on armed presence at the airport then aviation security has failed. If I lived in Chicago and was paying for this nonsense, well yeah, I'd be downright outraged!!!
 
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ChasenSFO said:
At SFO, at least back when I was doing customer service, the door guards were Filipina women in their 40-60s who usually didn't clear 5 feet or 100lbs. And they made $15/hr which I didn't even clear in my first ramp tower job. I got along great with them on a personal level(they usually had cute daughters), but I was pretty stubborn about helping them with their job of opening the door to people who have badges. One day I was working at what used to be 76A(back when the Bro roamed the earth, now it's 76 so you can park your fancy pointy noised wing slung jets on it with the jetway) and I felt something tugging on my pants(giggity). I looked down and it was a woman who must have been 4'7 pulling on my pants saying "Sir, sir! A man went down to the ramp! A passenger!". The conversation went like this:

"Go get him!"
"But sir, can you please go down and take him upstairs".
"No, that's your job"
"But sir! He is a large man!"
(door alarm goes off down the gate-hall leading to the ramp)
"You really need to go down there and get this guy, or call your supervisor, or do whatever you're supposed to do when this happens".
"But, sir! Please! Help me, sir!"
(man in a suit with luggage approaches from behind)
"Um. This isn't the Red Carpet Club, is it?".

AirServ. Keeping the skies safe. Because TSA can't be everywhere all the time.
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But...if they had guns we'd be safer because #murica!
 
Cptnchia said:
I'm a little confused here. There is a police force at ORD, that doesn't carry arms, but the airport is also patrolled by CPD? Why have the first group at all if CPD is there?
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Is it jurisdictional? CPD is responsible for certain parts of the airport but not all of it?
 
MikeD said:
It was interesting seeing his interviews about how he erred on the side of caution.

Sadly though, guys like him who exercise good, sound judgement, get overshadowed by the ones like the Walmart parking lot shooter at the petty thief, or the shooter who intervened in the carjacking, hitting the victim, then picking up his brass and taking off.
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THIS, is why one should carry a revolver.........

melax said:
Did you read the story ? They are real police officers, not mall cops, get the facts !! they get the same salary, same training etc... They are just not armed while on duty at the airports..
And furthermore I don't know what you're talking about CCW, You can't CCW in the sterile zone.
I don't know much about Chicago CCW laws but I think it's very difficult to obtain one, so you're not gonna have a lots of armed citizens around.
Do you rather have a properly trained individual to respond or rely on some random guy who may not even hit an elephant 10ft away ? CCW holders are not required to be firearm trained as far as I know..
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This varies from State to State; almost all require proper handling and training as part of the CCW approval process. A couple of States (TX & KS come to mind), now have open carry laws in place. Not sure about TX but in KS there is NO firearm training requirement; if you legally can own the firearm, you can strap it on your hip and go shopping. The firearm might not have ever been fired and you walk around with it.......amazing the "badass" attitude that goes along with these guys carrying guns.

Back on topic:
Not arming these Officers is probably more of a political move (don't want to appear to be a "hostile" city) and less about the qualification of the people involved.
 
Regardless of anybody's views on guns, airport security, and 'murica. These are NOT mall cops, they aren't private security officers working on a contract. They are trained, licensed, and sworn law enforcement officers.

If you want my personal opinion, either give them the tools to do their job, or get rid of them all together and let CPD carry the full load.
 
What bothers me about this situation is what I'm going to refer to as a Standard of Performance. I have NO expectation that a person with the word "Security" on the back of his/her shirt to provide me any more service than to remove a drunk from the bar or to keep someone from riding a skateboard inside the terminal...maybe a little crowd control. However, when I see the word "POLICE" on the back of a uniform, I have a certain level of expectation with regards to a Standard of Performance. As Americans, this standard has been well established over the years, we've grown up with it and now seems that the City of Chicago is departing from it.

For me, and I would imagine a vast majority of people, the words "run and hide" are not words that I would normally associate with a person wearing the uniform of a Police Officer. In this case, not only does it appear to be associated with these Airport Police, it is expected of them and is a part of their standing operating procedure. This is sad on so many levels.
 
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