OK to continue taxi after clearing?

[adreamer]

I had a complete opposite situation once. We were doing touch and go at 0130 AM local for night flying requirement. Here was tower's clearance:

"N*****, you are cleared for option. I have to go into office to turn in paper work. If you guys are land before I come back. you are cleared for option again. Just in case, if you guys are full stop, cleared to land, taxi to ramp. have a good night."

 

[BrewMaster]

Hey, I don't blame you for not wanting to look it up.

In this case, you (the pilot) are off the hook. By the letter of the law, that is not a taxi clearance. However, the controller's intent was clear even though he/she used improper procedure/phraseology. If for some reason the tapes needed to be pulled (in the event of a runway incursion, etc.), the feds would clear you of any wrong-doing and the controller would certainly be reprimanded. The FAA safety inspectors I've spoken with and flown with would interpret this scenario as a pilot being victimized, in a way, by a controller who said the wrong thing. If you really wanted to be a perfectionist you could ask tower/ground to clarify or use the word "verify" (that's in the pilot/controller glossary) regarding the ambiguous instruction to "turn right and monitor ground." On a checkride I might say something like, "Right on Kilo, monitor ground, verify we're cleared to taxi to parking; N1234."

This usually only happens at night when I'm one of only a couple or maybe even the only one. I know exactly what they mean, and parking is right off the turnoff, but it was always something that I stored in the back of my mind.

Thanks!

 

[n9088d]

This usually only happens at night when I'm one of only a couple or maybe even the only one. I know exactly what they mean, and parking is right off the turnoff, but it was always something that I stored in the back of my mind.

Thanks!

Yeah. It's just one of those many technicalities in flying. Good observation though.

adreamer- that's pretty funny. Talk about easy money for that controller. "N1234, you're cleared to do whatever you want. I'm going home."

 

[Sunburn]

I got yelled at a contract tower (VCV), for stopping at D after running off of 35 because the C17 behind me was practicing short stop and goes, which means they will also exit D. So I'm off the runway in my little C172 at E at full stop, and the tower keys up "Skyhawk 126, WHY THE (word removed to reduce filter workload) AT DELTA?" I key up, (my girlfriend is freaking out because we are getting yelled at) "Tower, Cessna 126, request taxi to tower, I'll bring you a new .65, and FAR/AIM" needless to say my request was declined so I, I requested progressive taxi to 21 for crosswind takeoff, mind you VCV is an old Air Force base so it is extremely simple to navigate. (I only asked for PTI because I knew that Tower and Ground were the required by SOP to only do PTI on Ground, and at that time the Local and Ground Control was the same controller.) Yeah, I am not a nice person with stupid controllers.

 

[BeechBoy]

There is a right answer, and it's as simple as that. When people decide they have a better idea than the FARs or AIM (like when a tower/ground controller gets mad at you for stopping) and get upset when you don't share their same idea, that's their issue and they'll knock it off if they're good at what they do.

If you exit the runway and taxi to parking without ever hearing a word from the tower then you've taxied without clearance.

:yeahthat:

One night in Milwaukee we had two freight dogs crash into each other while taxiing back to their hangar after landing. It was quite a scene. They both caught on fire and closed the airport down for about an hour. If this happened at ORD and one (or both) of the pilots was taxiing without a clearance what do you think the FAA would say when you told them, "that's the way we always do it here"? Do you think the controllers would come to their defense and say, "We want pilots to keep moving after they clear the runway and we yell at everyone who stops"?

I'm still looking for the reg that says, "The pilot in command may deviate from anything written in the Federal Aviation Regulations or the Airman's Information Manual as long as he/she has always done it that way or if following the regulations would incur the wrath of ATC".

If I ever have to justify my actions I want to be able to open up the "Bible" and point to the chapter and verse that proves that I am "without sin".

 

[whysoserial]

Maybe I can shed some light here. My facility is filing possible pilot deviations. Not because we want to but because if we don't, we can be accused of covering it up. It's the truth, it was written on paper in our "Read and Initial." I have to believe this is happening at other facilities as well. In the last two days, we have filed at least five possible deviations to different types of pilots flying different types of aircraft in different phases of flight.

When you exit the runway with instructions to contact ground. Stop, contact ground and get instructions. Even if you are 50 ft from your parking area. If you just taxi in, you are getting reported for a possible pilot deviation. I am a pilot myself...I hate seeing the pilot(s) getting scared about losing their job over something stupid like that but you are leaving us no choice. In order to report them, we need your name, address, pilot cert # and some other things. You can see why they get scared. Will anything happen to you for the minor deviations...doubt it, but I wouldn't want to give my cert # for a report of a possible pilot deviation. Not even sure what happens after it gets filed...not up to us. Whatever happens, it's not worth it.

So, in conclusion...

Don't taxi on your own.
Don't taxi and tell us you are taxiing.
Don't land on the wrong runway.
Don't cross runways you shouldn't.
Use your callsign with EVERY transmission.
Don't change frequencies when you shouldn't.
Read back hold instructions WITH the runway to hold short of.

Seems like some basic private pilot stuff and those are some of the most disregarded things pilots are doing these days.

 

[Sunburn]

Maybe I can shed some light here. My facility is filing possible pilot deviations. Not because we want to but because if we don't, we can be accused of covering it up. It's the truth, it was written on paper in our "Read and Initial." I have to believe this is happening at other facilities as well. In the last two days, we have filed at least five possible deviations to different types of pilots flying different types of aircraft in different phases of flight.

When you exit the runway with instructions to contact ground. Stop, contact ground and get instructions. Even if you are 50 ft from your parking area. If you just taxi in, you are getting reported for a possible pilot deviation. I am a pilot myself...I hate seeing the pilot(s) getting scared about losing their job over something stupid like that but you are leaving us no choice. In order to report them, we need your name, address, pilot cert # and some other things. You can see why they get scared. Will anything happen to you for the minor deviations...doubt it, but I wouldn't want to give my cert # for a report of a possible pilot deviation. Not even sure what happens after it gets filed...not up to us. Whatever happens, it's not worth it.

So, in conclusion...

Don't taxi on your own.
Don't taxi and tell us you are taxiing.
Don't land on the wrong runway.
Don't cross runways you shouldn't.
Use your callsign with EVERY transmission.
Don't change frequencies when you shouldn't.
Read back hold instructions WITH the runway to hold short of.

Seems like some basic private pilot stuff and those are some of the most disregarded things pilots are doing these days.

I understand your view of this situation, as I am at the MMAC right now for basics. I think the issue is not with the pilots that are on this thread, but with the controllers that are working said pilots. I honestly think they need some over the shoulder time again, as much as I hate it now, I couldn't think it would be any better if I was FPL and had an over the shoulder watching how I landed planes at one of the busiest airports in the country. Contract control guys.... well I'll reserve my opinion of them.

 

[n9088d]

:yeahthat:

One night in Milwaukee we had two freight dogs crash into each other while taxiing back to their hangar after landing. It was quite a scene. They both caught on fire and closed the airport down for about an hour. If this happened at ORD and one (or both) of the pilots was taxiing without a clearance what do you think the FAA would say when you told them, "that's the way we always do it here"? Do you think the controllers would come to their defense and say, "We want pilots to keep moving after they clear the runway and we yell at everyone who stops"?

I'm still looking for the reg that says, "The pilot in command may deviate from anything written in the Federal Aviation Regulations or the Airman's Information Manual as long as he/she has always done it that way or if following the regulations would incur the wrath of ATC".

If I ever have to justify my actions I want to be able to open up the "Bible" and point to the chapter and verse that proves that I am "without sin".

Extremely well said, my friend. I've always been fascinated by how the human mind accepts (with relative ease) something as proper simply because other people are doing it. Some of the best pilots and controllers I've ever seen were those who adopted their own independent mindset and followed prescribed procedures, policies, and of course regulations whether other people were doing it that way or not. They have the guts to do what they know is right and aren't concerned about looking different or silly.

Everything we're supposed to do as pilots (or controllers) is for a reason. Most of the time that reason is simply to keep us alive. That's the essence of regulations and the AIM (and the 7110.65 for controllers). Straying from published and approved procedures to protect your ego is the mark of an under-developed pilot or controller.

whysoserial's post was excellent too. He's right: basic private pilot-level procedures are often neglected by people who call themselves professionals.