SurferLucas
Southern Gentleman
“Sorry AS pilots, we gave all your pay raise money to QX” - AAG management, after they finally got whipsawed in return (bless their hearts)
Oh Skywest
- Thread starter Wardogg
- Start date
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VNAV monitor
Currently this strategy is working at the other AA, right?
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
The only thing you got wrong is AAG mgmt would never say sorry to the pilot group. They hate us.
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SurferLucas
Southern Gentleman
Brad Lambert comes back to Air Group
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You can have him
SurferLucas
Southern Gentleman
No thanks…if you’re an office fan, the scene where Michael describes Toby + Bin Laden + Hitler…that’s how I feel about that asshat
🦈💜
All dragon~
No QoL improvements in the new TA other than no stand-alone ready. I'd still be a "no" vote, though I'd expect it to pass.
The rates are good. But 11 random days off per month, low min guarantee, low credit, high duty days, random QoL-screwing "MOU" / "LOA"s from SAPA to management, getting sent to a different base for four days to sit reserve at 0300, denied fatigue calls, no ability to drop, swap or trade, no vacation, no ability to manipulate your schedule at all while bidding 25% company-wide, no commuter policy, Funny Scheduling Tricks where sits are scheduled for 5h 59m and magically extended so that you don't get a hotel, 9.5 hours van to van on a min-rest overnight with no food nearby, sixteen hour days with no meal breaks where the captain gets yelled at by a CP if she holds boarding for five minutes for her crew to get food ...
(To be fair: Except for the schedules, I always felt well-treated by OO. But I witnessed people who weren't. And eventually the schedules did me in—what good is $173/hr (what my pay would have been) if I'm never home to spend time with my mates? If I'm never able to go to derby practice, play hockey, or do anything other than drag my zombie-ass to bed, and do laundry/ironing/etc on my few days off?)
The rates are good. But 11 random days off per month, low min guarantee, low credit, high duty days, random QoL-screwing "MOU" / "LOA"s from SAPA to management, getting sent to a different base for four days to sit reserve at 0300, denied fatigue calls, no ability to drop, swap or trade, no vacation, no ability to manipulate your schedule at all while bidding 25% company-wide, no commuter policy, Funny Scheduling Tricks where sits are scheduled for 5h 59m and magically extended so that you don't get a hotel, 9.5 hours van to van on a min-rest overnight with no food nearby, sixteen hour days with no meal breaks where the captain gets yelled at by a CP if she holds boarding for five minutes for her crew to get food ...
(To be fair: Except for the schedules, I always felt well-treated by OO. But I witnessed people who weren't. And eventually the schedules did me in—what good is $173/hr (what my pay would have been) if I'm never home to spend time with my mates? If I'm never able to go to derby practice, play hockey, or do anything other than drag my zombie-ass to bed, and do laundry/ironing/etc on my few days off?)
CoffeeIcePapers
Well-Hung Member
How do you vote for anything with no union?
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
🦈💜
All dragon~
By clicking on the radial button corresponding with ones choice on the voting site.
For the record, if pilots didn't get a vote that actually mattered, SAPA would be illegal as per the RLA. SAPA represents collective bargaining set up in the company's interest, which is why I (among many others) were trying so hard for the last few years to get an ALPA drive going. It gives the pilots the obligations of the RLA without the protections a real union would offer.
However, one of the things that an arrangement like that requires is that the company construct at least a veneer of reality. If it could be shown that they were funding SAPA and not requiring SAPA to at least minimally work at the behest of the pilot group, SkyWest, Inc would be extremely vulnerable under 45 USC § 152 (Fourth), and any cases that they're exempted from due to their pilot and FA groups working under a CBA. There are several cases that reflect this, and also several cases that adjudge pilots "represented" by SAPA to be represented under a CBA and thus subject to the relevant terms of the RLA.
Thus having the representative agreement voted on and treated like a CBA is a big deal.
Thus yeah, you've voting.
On a contract.
Now the real f•cky-wucky parts come in when you realize that SAPA will not enforce any of the terms of the contract against the company, will issue MOUs and agree to LOIs with the company that undermine the pilots interest, and that the representatives are forced to sign NDAs by the company. It's a total game. But the whole YoU CAnT VoTE If YoU DoNT hAvE A UnIOn!!!!1 thing is just stupid, in a very lazy kind of way.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
That's a whole words, but per the NMB, Skywest's pilot group does not have certified representation and as such has none of the protections provided by the RLA.
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All dragon~
Per federal court, however, the company and the pilots are engaged in collective bargaining and the terms of employment, including pilot policy manual and supporting documents, constitute a collective bargaining agreement. Effectively, the pilot group has all of the obligations and none of the protections (since the 'representation' in question works for the company.) It's a bad situation for the SkyWest pilots, for sure, which is why they need to unionize. But if the company ignored the pilot vote, or didn't pay lip service to the ... wait, this sounds familiar. It's like I already said this. Oh right, I did. Carrier employees without certified representation are still bound by to collective bargaining, and they're still required to elect or appoint a representative for resolving disputes.
We're not talking about protections for employees here, and we're not talking about certification. We're talking about the basic definition of collective bargaining under the RLA, as interpreted by numerous federal courts, and the fact that the representative (or representative body) appointed by the employee group is legally representative, regardless of certification. The behavior of that representative (or representative body) is examined in quite a few cases.
There's a fascinating body of cases when you start looking for SkyWest on law sites. But unfortunately, yeah, lots of words.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
It’s sad that people who were on the OCs still don’t understand this.
Soul Brotha'
Off to go do Black guy stuff
Skywest pilots are living in la, la land. This is coming from a guy who went to BlueJuice Factory before the union came onto property(I arrived as the second union vote was going on). The Blue management and pilots had some sort of made up council that was supposed to benefit the pilots and the company. Guess what? When it wasn’t convenient to the company they just changed it. I was part of OC that got ALPA on property and while it’s not always peachy I would take it over any student council BS. Wake the “F” up guys.
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
FWIW, I work at an ALPA property and they just took away our vacation open time, which made it impossible to trade vacation. Unless you found a pilot to pilot trade of course.
This had a huge impact on QOL for many of us. It was during section 6 contract negotiations and represented everything a union is supposed to protect you from.
It’s been two years and nothing not a single thing has changed. The company just unilaterally took that away from us and we are completely powerless to do anything about it.
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Maurus
The Great Gazoo
It all depends on your contract verbiage.
The union should grieve the matter if the verbiage is in your favor. If they should have grieved you still do have options.
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