OEI and TERPS

Greetings 400A,

I ran across this topic by accident. You raise some interesting questions. I wouldn’t be overly worried about the storm you may have created. It’s long overdue. Please allow me to take a few moments to comment on this post.

The newly revised AIM guidance for 5-2-8, released 27 August 2009, is intended to address these very questions. Misconceptions concerning expected airplane performance on TERPS-based procedures, SIDs and ODPs, were rising to a level where they needed to be addressed in the AIM. A year ago the effort was begun to address these concerns and with the help of AFS 410, we were able to make these changes. For more a detailed explanation, see the FAA/Industry Aeronautical Charting Forum agenda item history document on this particular AIM change:
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/afs/afs400/afs420/acfipg/open/media/Hist%2008-01-279.pdf

With the publication of the AIM guidance, this matter will likely be closed at next month’s meeting. However, I remain troubled and concerned by the understanding of the OEI regulatory performance requirements by non-Part 121 operators, and particular by the Part 142 Training Organizations.

As you mentioned in your discussion, the performance requirements of TERPS (SIDs & ODPs) and the regulatory OEI performance requirements of Subpart I, Part 121 & Part 135 are two separate and independent subjects. Part 25 requires the aircraft manufacturers to provide the necessary performance data in the FAA-Approved AFM for the operator to show compliance with the operating rules contained in 91.605 and Subpart I, Part 121 & Part 135. TERPS performance requirements are not addressed by the operating rules; hence there is no requirement for the airframe OEM to provide all-engines operating performance data that can be used for TERPS performance compliance. However, there are efforts underway to address these requirements which are beyond the scope of the operating rules. See related ACF-IPG agenda item below:

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/afs/afs400/afs420/acfipg/open/media/Hist%2098-01-197.pdf

On a related matter, additional guidance is provided in the 27 August 2009 AIM edition concerning compliance with climb gradients and altitude restrictions on ODPs and SIDs:

http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/ATPubs/AIM/CHG3AIM8-27-09.pdf

An ODP climb gradient is always established for obstacle or procedure design criteria purposes. A climb gradient or altitude restriction published on an ODP may not be canceled or amended lower by ATC. As noted above, ODP climb gradient requirements are based on normal, all-engines operating performance. SIDs are system enhancement procedures designed to facilitate air traffic clearance and traffic management. While assessed for obstacle clearance purposes per the TERPS criteria, climb gradients and altitude constraints may be published for air traffic separation/management purposes. These climb gradients and altitude constraints will be annotated “(ATC)” on future SIDs that are designed IAW FAA Order 8260.46D.

A climb gradient or altitude restriction published on a SID that is annotated (ATC) may be canceled by ATC at their discretion. On future SIDs, an (ATC) altitude restriction on the initial departure route will be accompanied by a second altitude restriction that is required for obstacle clearance purposes. This second altitude restriction is mandatory and cannot be amended by ATC.

The 27 August 2009 AIM change explains the differences between an ODP and SID climb gradient. An ODP climb gradient must always be complied with unless higher-than-standard takeoff minimums are published and the weather conditions at the time of takeoff meet or exceed those minimums. If the climb gradient is published without higher than standard takeoff minimums, then climb gradient is required, most likely for procedure design purposes. For an example, see the new RUUDY TWO RNAV SID for TEB runway 24. The initial climb gradient of 376 FPNM is required to support the turn to intercept the 260 track to WENTZ, which will occur at distance less than 2 NM from the departure end of runway 24. This climb gradient supports the need for the aircraft to be at least 400 ft above DER elevation before beginning a turn more than 15 degrees (see FAAO 8260.44).

91.175(f)(4) requires Part 121 and Part 135 operators departing IFR (not IMC, but rather on an IFR flight plan in either IMC or VMC conditions) to have a takeoff obstacle avoidance plan that meet the requirements of Subpart I, Part 121 or Part 135 as applicable:

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=7e03cbb00617a7eecaaaf47605d76f4b&rgn=div8&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.10.2.6.42&idno=14

The Subpart I OEI takeoff obstacle clearance requirements are the same for both Part 121 and Part 135. They require the net takeoff flight path to clear obstacles by 35 ft and 200 ft laterally either side of flight track within the airport boundary, and by 300 ft laterally either side of flight track after passing the airport boundary. Subpart I also require the operator to account for effects of wind on the OEI flight track. AC 120-91, Airport Obstacle Analysis, provides guidance on operator compliance with this second requirement. The Obstacle Accountability Areas specified in the AC for straight-out and turning departures account for wind variations along the OEI lateral track without the need for specific wind accountability along the OEI flight track.

As noted in the AC, a Part 25 airplane’s OEI flight path is not linear, nor is it based on a single climb gradient value. Rather, the OEI flight profile is constructed of a series of flight path segments. The climb gradient charts provided for a Part 25 airplane provide for a value or “spot gradient” valid only at on particular point in the OEI climb. The 2nd segment climb gradient value may be the climb gradient attained at the point of landing gear retraction (e.g. Boeing & Dassault), 400 ft above the runway (e.g. Challenger 300), 1000 ft (e.g. Lear 45) or some other value. No two airframe OEM’s use the same method and will frequently vary with make and model.

The 2nd segment climb gradient value provides only a reference value for use with the takeoff flight path/obstacle charts. These flight path/obstacle charts are usually broken into close-in (1st & 2nd segment) and distant flight path charts. The flight path charts will usually contain some means of correction for effects of thrust lapse rate (thrust loss) through the OEI climb. Under no circumstances is it ever acceptable to use the 2nd segment climb gradient chart without reference to the flight path/obstacle charts. This is extrapolating data beyond the procedures found in the AFM, something the FAA very much frowns upon. Yet, I am well aware that this method is often taught at the Part 142 Learning Centers (who’s sign hangs over the door matters little).

Part 121 air carrier performance engineering departments or commercial performance engineering vendors (APG, Jeppesen OpsData, AeroData) use AFM takeoff flight path charts and performance data coupled with the “best available obstacle data“ (as required in AC 120-91) to verify OEI net takeoff flight path obstacle clearance that meet the requirements of Subpart I and in most cases meets the requirements of AC 120-91. If necessary to maximize takeoff weight, a special OEI procedure (EO procedure) may be provided. The EO procedures may follow a published ODP or SID, and operator’s special IFR departure procedure, e.g. the Eagle CO Cottonwood Special DP, or may be tailored EO procedure.

The OEI analysis does not always end at 1,500 ft. The OEI takeoff flight path per 25.111 ends at 1,500 ft, but AC 120-91 requires consideration beyond 1,500 ft into the enroute environment, a safe holding pattern, or return to the departure airport as appropriate. Also, Subpart I requires OEI obstacle clearance in the enroute phase of flight. The guiding principle of Subpart I is that, following an engine failure at or above V1, the airplane is assured obstacle clearance all the way to the destination an if necessary alternate airport (see 121.191/135.181).

TERPS criteria can form the basis of the OEI obstacle analysis, but as the AC 120-91 points out, the TERP climb gradient will be treated as a surface though which the airplane cannot penetrate from above. In other words, the OEI takeoff path must remain above the TERPS climb gradient surface or the OEI net takeoff flight path must remain 35 ft above the TERPS obstacle clearance surface (40:1 surface for a standard 200 FPNM CG). Further, there is a need to account for low, close-in obstacles which are not accounted for by the TERPS climb gradient. These are the obstacles found in the notes on ODPs or SIDS, or on the Jeppesen 10-4 OBST charts. These obstacles must be plotted on the AFM’s takeoff flight path/obstacle charts to verify obstacle clearance.

Since a TERPS climb gradient may be established for procedure criteria purposes as opposed for obstacle clearance purposes (see RUUDY TWO at TEB), using the TERPS climb gradient to meet Subpart I or 91.175(f)(4) takeoff obstacle clearance requirements may be unduly burdensome. The airport analysis method provides a much greater takeoff weight allowance.

There was much discussion on the FAA’s opinion on this subject. Rather say anything for the FAA, I thought you might like to hear it from the current manager of FAA’s AFS 410, Mr. Coby Johnson. The FAA produced an excellent training video hosted by Mr. Johnson for their inspector staff explaining AC 120-91, which may be viewed at this link:

http://videoontheweb.faa.gov/training/AFS-AC120-HS.asx

Please allow me to summarize a few key points:

  • ODP & SID procedures assume all-engines operating performance.
  • OEI contingency procedures are the responsibility of the operator.
  • AC 120-91 Airport Obstacle Analysis provides operator guidance in developing these OEI contingency procedures.
  • These OEI procedures and performance limits must be based on the data published in the AFM using the procedures published in the AFM. I have yet to see an AFM that instructs the user to apply a 2nd segment climb gradient to anything other than the flight path/obstacle charts.
  • Independent use of a 2nd segment OEI climb gradient value derived from the AFM for TERPS compliance purposes in support of meeting Subpart I OEI net takeoff flight path obstacle clearance extrapolates data beyond the instructions provided in the AFM and is contrary to FAA policy.
  • OEI takeoff obstacle clearance does not end at 1,500 ft. Rather it continues to the enroute structure where enroute obstacle clearance rule apply, or to safe location (holding pattern), or a return to the departure airport.
  • All engines operating climb data is not provided in the AFM because Part 25 does not require such data since the operating rules in Parts 91, 121, and 135 do not address an all-engines operating obstacle clearance requirement.
  • Aircraft departing under Instrument Flight Rules (on an IFR clearance – regardless of whether the weather conditions are VMC or IME) must have a takeoff obstacle avoidance plan that meets the requirements of Subpart I, Part 121 or Part 135 as applicable. The procedure need not follow or adhere to the TERPS ODP or SID procedure, although in most cases it would be beneficial if it did, especially in a non-radar environment.

I hope that this discussion was helpful in addressing this latest AIM change and recent FAR changes.

Best regards,

Rich Boll


 
Just in case anyone here is wondering, Mr. Rich Boll is most certainly an authority when it comes to matters such as this. It is my understanding that he is the author of the most recent AIM changes regarding ODP and SID procedure guidance.

CAVU companies, creator of EFB Pro has a pretty thorough video presentation discussing the topic as well as some common misconceptions many pilots have.

I would be interested in reading Mr. Boll's opinion of CAVU's product.
 
Just in case anyone here is wondering, Mr. Rich Boll is most certainly an authority when it comes to matters such as this. It is my understanding that he is the author of the most recent AIM changes regarding ODP and SID procedure guidance.

CAVU companies, creator of EFB Pro has a pretty thorough video presentation discussing the topic as well as some common misconceptions many pilots have.

I would be interested in reading Mr. Boll's opinion of CAVU's product.

I haven't used CAVU's product, so I have no comment on it one way or the other. Sorry.

Rich
 
Climb segments

1st segment is airborne to gear retraction @ V2 @ take off power

2nd segment is gear retracted to 400/1500 feet (depending on manufacture) @ V2 @ take off power

3rd segment begins at 400/1500 feet, is level flight, accelerate to Venr/Vac/Vfr (basically flap retract speed and single engine climb speed). Accelerate to Vac/Venr at take off power, then set MCT

4th segment, climb at Venr/Vac @ MCT (typically ends around 1500 feet agl or a bit higher depending on the aircraft manufacture)

Final segment, accelerate to your enroute climb speed @ MCT
 
Thanks for the video link, Rich! Below is the .PPT used during the presentation:

www.faa.gov/other_visit/.../obstacle/.../AC120_91overview.ppt


Can anyone point me to a table (or explain to me) the elements that define each stage of climb segment?

Thanks!

Hi C150. Thank's for the PPT link,

Surprisingly, the FAA's Airplane Flying Handbood and the Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge both contain an good discussion of the four-segment OEI Part 25 takeoff flight path and net takeoff flight path. There is one minor mistake on the graphic depicted in the Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge which has to due with the one of the minimum certification climb gradients for one of of the segments (final I think?).

These manuals may be downloaded from the FAA's web site:

http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/

For a more technical description of the takeoff flight path of Part 25, the definitive source is AC 25-7A, Flight Test Certification of Transport Category Airplanes:

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_G...73715d01e9a86256b9f0072f02a/$FILE/AC25-7A.pdf

If you want a history lesson of how CAA (before FAA) developed the transport airplane performance rules, read Appendix 1. It provides an excellent historical review of how climb gradient replaced rate of climb based on stall speed as the minimum for OEI certification performance and how the concept of "net" OEI climb was applied to the takeoff flight path (see SR422A's discussion.

These two documents should answer any questions concerning jet transport airplane performance.

Take care,

Rich Boll
 
Just in case anyone here is wondering, Mr. Rich Boll is most certainly an authority when it comes to matters such as this. It is my understanding that he is the author of the most recent AIM changes regarding ODP and SID procedure guidance.

While I did present the issue to the FAA's Aeronautical Charting Forum (see link in previous post) along with an initial draft of the AIM guidance, the final product was a colaborative effort of many individuals within the Charting Forum.

Rich
 
You and your company get it. But, ask the crews that have been violated departing from places like Aspen and Rifle where the FEDS note the tail number and destination then ask the pilot to prove they can meet the SID climb requirements OEI.

Those feds need to learn the requirements of their employer. No one is required or expected to meet the climb gradient of any SID with OEI. But, if they are a commercial operator, they better have a OEI procedure at hand to fly instead of the SID in the event of an engine failure.

The non-commercial operator is wise to have an OEI procedure, too, but certainly not required to. And, adherence to the SID's climb gradient is no longer applicable if the pilot declares an emergency based on an engine failure.

Rich Boll is the consummate expert on this subject area.
 
Those feds need to learn the requirements of their employer. No one is required or expected to meet the climb gradient of any SID with OEI. But, if they are a commercial operator, they better have a OEI procedure at hand to fly instead of the SID in the event of an engine failure.

I thought that is what I was saying ealier in the thread myself, but 400A told me I had been taught incorrectly. Color me confused by what he was telling me. :confused:

Rich Boll is the consummate expert on this subject area.

We're very happy to have both Rich and yourself here. Thanks for chiming in.
 
I'm not quite sure I'm following what you're asking / saying either.

I just came back from recurrent on the Lear 40/45, and did recurrent in the Citation Bravo 6 months ago. Both were done at Simuflight/Bombardier. It was made pretty clear to me that there are places that we cannot accept the SID/ODP in low weather conditions because the aircraft cannot meet the climb requirements single engine. Even the Lear, which is a pretty darned good performer, is limited in some cases. We cover the same thing in our in-house ground school every year (we're primarily 135 ops). There are numerous airports that we will not depart IMC. If we can't visually pick our way out of the valley or around the hills if we lose an engine, we don't go.

We're trying to convince the company to spend some money on APG procedures for some airports, but to be honest the few number of times that we don't do flights in a year's time makes it hard to justify the cost.

IMC/VMC doesn't matter. (part 135/121) You have to have a take off flight path obstacle clearance "program" (for lack of a better word).


135.379(d)(2) (assuming a part 25 twin engine jet, younger than 1958 certification date).


Show me how you "figure" your obstacle clearance, abiding by part 135, even at an airport with the standard 200 foot per NM requirement with OEI.

There is nothing saying or forbidding the use of SIDs and ODPs as OEI escape procedures. The catch is, the data we have as pilots and how the airplane was certificated (4 segment climb profile) how that data is presented to the pilots doesn't meet the OEI obstacle clearance requirements. For example, you figure your OEI V2 climbe gradient using something like UltraNav, CAVU, the books, etc. That number is a snapshot number at the beginning of the 2nd segment, it isn't a rise over run number.
 
IMC/VMC doesn't matter. (part 135/121) You have to have a take off flight path obstacle clearance "program" (for lack of a better word).


135.379(d)(2) (assuming a part 25 twin engine jet, younger than 1958 certification date).


Show me how you "figure" your obstacle clearance, abiding by part 135, even at an airport with the standard 200 foot per NM requirement with OEI.

There is nothing saying or forbidding the use of SIDs and ODPs as OEI escape procedures. The catch is, the data we have as pilots and how the airplane was certificated (4 segment climb profile) how that data is presented to the pilots doesn't meet the OEI obstacle clearance requirements. For example, you figure your OEI V2 climbe gradient using something like UltraNav, CAVU, the books, etc. That number is a snapshot number at the beginning of the 2nd segment, it isn't a rise over run number.


To be fair to CAVU, I believe that their program does compare the four-segment net takeoff flight path to the TERPS gradient. They also convert the ODP or SID gradient to the the TERPS OCS to eliminate the additional pad. I'm not sure how they address the problem of low, close-in obstructions that are not accounted for by the TERPS gradient.

If the OEI takeoff distances is equal to or nearly so to the runway length, these close-in obstacle can result in a quite significant impact on takeoff weight. Airports like HUT, TTN, SSI and others are greatly affected by these close-in obstacles. A runway analysis will show an obstacle limited weight due to these obstacles when the aircraft is capable of exceeding the 200 FPNM standard IFR climb gradient for the runways affected at these airports.

Rich

PS. Thanks TERPSTER! Everyone already knows that you're the consumate expert on IFR procedures -- Bar None!
 
Exactly Rich! CAVU, IMO, takes a too conservative approach and beats the drum about getting into the enroute enviroment, which I think is not needed AS LONG AS the OEI escape procedure takes me to a fix or navaid in which I can climb in a hold if needed.

Back to the bigger issue....
 
Exactly Rich! CAVU, IMO, takes a too conservative approach and beats the drum about getting into the enroute enviroment, which I think is not needed AS LONG AS the OEI escape procedure takes me to a fix or navaid in which I can climb in a hold if needed.

Back to the bigger issue....


The majority of airports, it is only necessary to climb to the MSA associated with an RNAV (GPS) approach for the airport in question. Most of the time a climb to 1000 to 1500 ft above airport elevation will be necessary to maneuver within one of the two MSA altitudes in the direction of departure (there can only be four MS quadrants) to return overhead the airport to hold.

Even the most basic straight out EO analysis will allow this to happen if terrain is not a factor in the area. IF terrain is a factor, then most likely the vendor will provide a suitable EO procedure to the enroute environment or to a holding pattern as you describe.

Rich
 
IMC/VMC doesn't matter. (part 135/121) You have to have a take off flight path obstacle clearance "program" (for lack of a better word).

My "program" was to avoid the rocks visually while flying towards lower terrain (route determined for each airport). Thus the IMC versus VMC distinction in my original post when departing airports with second segment climb gradient requirements greater than my aircraft's performance capability. Doesn't that work? :confused:

As far as the second segment numbers, if I remember correctly we were taught to use the second segment climb gradients at the TOP of climb altitude, not the bottom, to determine if we could meet the ODP/SID requirement. I just grabbed the Lear 40 book, and it has second segment net climb gradient numbers up to 14,000 feet which would cover just about every procedure that I can recall. Doesn't that address the issue that you are talking about?

As far as the close-in obstacle issues, I suppose that there are flat-land airports with short runways and near-by obstacles that the issue might crop up, but I guess I don't understand the issue with TERPS versus Part 25 data enough to be able to tell when there might be an issue. How would one determine when there is a potential problem???

In most of the typical airports that we are concerned with OEI operations the runway length is enough longer than our take-off distance that I automatically look ahead to the second segment gradient requirements for any red flags and then go from there with my flight planning. I figure that I'll be well above the required altitudes for TERPS close-in obstacles by the end of the runway when single-engine take-off distance is substantially less than runway length. Does that make sense?
 
My "program" was to avoid the rocks visually while flying towards lower terrain (route determined for each airport). Thus the IMC versus VMC distinction in my original post when departing airports with second segment climb gradient requirements greater than my aircraft's performance capability. Doesn't that work? :confused:

As far as the second segment numbers, if I remember correctly we were taught to use the second segment climb gradients at the TOP of climb altitude, not the bottom, to determine if we could meet the ODP/SID requirement. I just grabbed the Lear 40 book, and it has second segment net climb gradient numbers up to 14,000 feet which would cover just about every procedure that I can recall. Doesn't that address the issue that you are talking about?

As far as the close-in obstacle issues, I suppose that there are flat-land airports with short runways and near-by obstacles that the issue might crop up, but I guess I don't understand the issue with TERPS versus Part 25 data enough to be able to tell when there might be an issue. How would one determine when there is a potential problem???

In most of the typical airports that we are concerned with OEI operations the runway length is enough longer than our take-off distance that I automatically look ahead to the second segment gradient requirements for any red flags and then go from there with my flight planning. I figure that I'll be well above the required altitudes for TERPS close-in obstacles by the end of the runway when single-engine take-off distance is substantially less than runway length. Does that make sense?

I appologize, I have limited time to reply this evening.

I'll ask you one question first. Please look in the AFM and tell me if it includes instructions for the same method you were taught in school? Does the AFM tell you to use the 2nd segment climb gradient in comparison against a required climb gradient, be it TERPS or PANS-OPS? If not, then the method you were taught is extrapolating the AFM data beyond the instructions provided and beyond the data's intended purpose. Any extrapolation of performace data beyond the purpose defined in the AFM is forbidden in the eyes of the FAA.

If your procedures don't match what is in the AFM or what allowed in AC 120-91 then it not approved by FAA. The AC contains instructions on how you can obtain approval for using that method (very last section). However, approval must come from AFS 400 in Washington. It cannot be approved at the local level.

Rich
 
I appologize, I have limited time to reply this evening.

I'll ask you one question first. Please look in the AFM and tell me if it includes instructions for the same method you were taught in school? Does the AFM tell you to use the 2nd segment climb gradient in comparison against a required climb gradient, be it TERPS or PANS-OPS? If not, then the method you were taught is extrapolating the AFM data beyond the instructions provided and beyond the data's intended purpose. Any extrapolation of performace data beyond the purpose defined in the AFM is forbidden in the eyes of the FAA.

If your procedures don't match what is in the AFM or what allowed in AC 120-91 then it not approved by FAA. The AC contains instructions on how you can obtain approval for using that method (very last section). However, approval must come from AFS 400 in Washington. It cannot be approved at the local level.

Rich

Heading for bed. If I have a chance in the morning before my flight I'll scan in the appropriate instruction pages.

Thanks for your help on sorting this out.
 
My "program" was to avoid the rocks visually while flying towards lower terrain (route determined for each airport). Thus the IMC versus VMC distinction in my original post when departing airports with second segment climb gradient requirements greater than my aircraft's performance capability. Doesn't that work? :confused:

Short answer, no. Prudent, ie not hitting the rocks, but not legal.

As far as the second segment numbers, if I remember correctly we were taught to use the second segment climb gradients at the TOP of climb altitude, not the bottom, to determine if we could meet the ODP/SID requirement. I just grabbed the Lear 40 book, and it has second segment net climb gradient numbers up to 14,000 feet which would cover just about every procedure that I can recall. Doesn't that address the issue that you are talking about?

This is completely wrong and one of the "bigger problems" with how performance is taught. You CANNOT just look at the top of a SID/ODP and pull out the 2nd segment data for that altitude and find the weight it happens at. Show me in your AFM where it allows you to do that. As Rich states, you can interpolate, you cannot extrapolate. The BeechJet has the same charts and there is a fairly long intro to them that basically says these charts are for the operator (not pilots) to develop OEI procedures and they aren't FAA approved. The Lear very well could be different though, never flown one.

As far as the close-in obstacle issues, I suppose that there are flat-land airports with short runways and near-by obstacles that the issue might crop up, but I guess I don't understand the issue with TERPS versus Part 25 data enough to be able to tell when there might be an issue. How would one determine when there is a potential problem???

The potential problem has been addressed by TWO FAA sources, the AIM and the AC. TERPS doesn't account for low close in obstacles (those trees at 125 feet AGL 3000 feet from the DER, 1000 feet left of centerline). Your 2nd segment climb data is really only "good" (and that is a stretch as well) to wherever your AFM says it is, typically 400 feet to 1500 feet AGL. You then have to consider third segment acceleration and then 4th segment climb at Venr (or whatever your single engine enroute climb is called), and that data will only go up so far as well.

In most of the typical airports that we are concerned with OEI operations the runway length is enough longer than our take-off distance that I automatically look ahead to the second segment gradient requirements for any red flags and then go from there with my flight planning. I figure that I'll be well above the required altitudes for TERPS close-in obstacles by the end of the runway when single-engine take-off distance is substantially less than runway length. Does that make sense?

That makes sense, but it isn't legal. You don't have the data to back it up. In my perfect world that extra runway in front of you would in effect, decrease the gradient required to miss the obstacles and be both safe and operationally beneficial. As it is currently, that doesn't work.


The short and dirty is, most of the time most part 25 turbojets have the single engine performance to meet OEI obstacle clearance(s) and follow the SID/ODP. I think we owe a bit more to the people in the back than "most of the time". I think we owe them that every take off, with an engine failure at the most critical performance point (V1), we are assured that we will miss the granite, no eyeballing, no voodoo performance calculation methods, good solid take off analysis numbers that are operational, not certification type.

If it was as simple as see and avoid and follow the SID/ODP all the airlines wouldn't have dedicated aero/nav performance departments and customized OEI procedures for every airport they operate to, even if the procedure is as simple as fly runway heading to acceleration height.

If you have the data to give you performance numbers for 1st through 4th segment to follow SIDs, then rock on, BUT I will wager Bud Light to Sam Adams that the weight penalty you will take on every take off would so severly limit your range it would be pointless.
 
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