Odds of getting picked up

[jermscentral]

Well, I am certain that studying will not HURT you. The question is, can it help you? Really the only way to know that for sure is for someone to take the test without studying, get a 70, then study and go back and get a 90. And then have that happen consistently.

Just because someone studied and did well doesn't mean that studying works. That implies causation. Perhaps they would have done equally well without studying.

I feel like the only thing that "studying" (let's just call it what it is, practicing) will do for you is give you a heads up on the actual format of the test. At best, that might calm you down a bit and make you perform better. But doing a letter factory simulator for 3 hours will not turn you into the kind of person that can do that kind of multitasking. Some people can just do that better than others, and that's what the AT-SAT is for. To find those people.

If you could inflate your score by just studying, then why bother with the test at all? Why not just go off of GPA, since that shows your ability to study over 4 years?

I'm just saying you can't study your way into being able to stay calm through stress. You can either do that, or you can't.

</rant>

The AT-SAT score is an aptitude test. When you go to take it, the guys from Robinson Aviation usually mention something about that. It is not designed as a test for which you can study, because it is not about rote memorization. The test is designed to see if your mind can think in the 3-dimensional world of air traffic controlling, not know if you can memorize a letter factory pattern. Why do you think the FAA only requires a high school diploma and not necessarily a college degree (though I think it does help)?

High school is mostly about rote memorization for tests; being able to regurgitate facts and figures. College is about expanding that concept into creative/free thinking, which is why most college tests have you explain a situation rather than define a term. ATC work involves being able to regurgitate facts and figures (vectors, runways, weather information, etc.) while being spatially aware of what is going on in the entire airspace. Being able to philosophically argue why a plane should descend and maintain to 25,000 feet is completely unrelated to being able to tell a plane in a proper amount of time to descend and maintain 25,000 feet because of traffic 10 miles ahead.

If it was meant as a test for which you can study, don't you think the FAA would release a study guide for it, much like they do for pilot's licenses? Sure, you can buy the green book and see what the test format is like, but you can't study for a test on which you don't know the actual questions being asked.

 

[sestevens]

I'm from Longmont so that's where I'm hoping to get too. I know a couple of the guys who work there through my bartending job. They keep saying they need people, so hopefully that works out for us. Did you ever get to talk to the manager?

No, I never talked to anyone down there. Maybe it will be my downfall, who knows?

 

[swinte00]

No, I never talked to anyone down there. Maybe it will be my downfall, who knows?

I never talked to anyone from my facility either before Wednesday morning. But I think that living in the area definitely gets you bonus points.

 

[atcsqwurl]

No, I never talked to anyone down there. Maybe it will be my downfall, who knows?

I sense a tad bit of bitterness. :drool:

 

[sixthman20]

No, I never talked to anyone down there. Maybe it will be my downfall, who knows?

Well, the guy said that he was disappointed last time because they didn't really get many well qualified applicants from the area.

 

[Rosstafari]

Just because someone studied and did well doesn't mean that studying works. That implies causation. Perhaps they would have done equally well without studying.

I feel like the only thing that "studying" (let's just call it what it is, practicing) will do for you is give you a heads up on the actual format of the test. At best, that might calm you down a bit and make you perform better. But doing a letter factory simulator for 3 hours will not turn you into the kind of person that can do that kind of multitasking. Some people can just do that better than others, and that's what the AT-SAT is for. To find those people.

Whatever. If you feel that preparation for a part of the process that plays a huge role in your potential placement in a facility is unimportant, by all means, don't do it. I'm not here to convince you of that. Nor am I interested in debating whether or not knowing and practicing what will be on the test will is advantageous -- believe whatever you want. There of plenty of people who disagree with you, but hey, nobody's gonna force you to take good advice.

 

[sestevens]

I sense a tad bit of bitterness. :drool:

No, no bitterness really. A bit of jealousy perhaps

 

[sestevens]

Whatever. If you feel that preparation for a part of the process that plays a huge role in your potential placement in a facility is unimportant, by all means, don't do it. I'm not here to convince you of that. Nor am I interested in debating whether or not knowing and practicing what will be on the test will is advantageous -- believe whatever you want. There of plenty of people who disagree with you, but hey, nobody's gonna force you to take good advice.

Given that I've already taken the test and scored sufficiently well, the odds of me studying now are quite low, dare I say zero.

I am aware that there are many people who disagree. There are also many who agree. I don't take it as a personal insult. That would be ridiculous.

However, there have been several threads on these boards that discuss the merit and advantage of studying for the test, so obviously many people are curious to know how people feel about it.

I think the fact that the FAA publishes NO guides, and specifically asks people to not talk about the test would imply that they don't want people studying for it.

 

[RobertB]

I'm still having trouble believeing that they don't differentiate between an 86 ATSAT score and a 99. Shouldn't the 99 be given slight preference? I mean it makes sense. From what people say, the test is the most significant factor, and I would think there's a bigger difference between a 99 and an 86 than there is between an 86 and an 84. Maybe it's just me.

There is a difference between scores and people on the selection committees are able to see your score on the ATSAT. Anyone who says differently, has no idea what they are talking about.

 

[sestevens]

I adore how everyone on here speaks with such authority on how the panels operate and what they see.

Were you guys the same ones that after 9/11 were running around telling everyone "Everyone go buy gas right now! By the end of the day it's going to be $12 a gallon!!!11one"

 

[Raydon]

I hope you realize that you're now "one of those guys on here" too..

and.. while we cannot appropriately, legitimately confirm or deny or define how the selection panels work.. (because we're not in the room with them)..throughout the last year or two of people calling into OKC, HR, AMC, ATM and other departments associated with OTS/CTI aps and protocol.. the information we have been able to collectively compile here has led us to the conclusions and otherwise (pessimistically speaking) speculative theories about how the process works.

it may not be much in your incredibly important opinion, or make for a very solid book - but it's better than sitting around making fun of everyone's input.

in response to the whole "to study or not to study" thing.. I studied my ass off using the green book and jeremy justice's sim from the day I got my at-sat auth. got me a 99.8! Whether or not it helps.. hell i'll say it does.. either that or I'm just a genius and didn't have anything better to do but blow $20-something dollars on a book and read it because I was bored.

odds of getting picked up? right now.. mmmm.. i think things are kinda slowing down. now that the system is (probably overloaded) full of people.. the FAA gets to scrape the best off the top of the applicant pool.

As far as helping get a seat at a facility you desire? mmm.. probably not so much once you have your scores and paperwork in.. I've heard of people getting different facilities on their FOL from what their TOL said. It's happened a couple of times now. I think they may take the highest qualified (or scored) applicants.. taking vet pref, general resume and such into consideration.. and seat the best ones first... at least.. that's how i'd do it if I were a manager...

and I think it also has something to do with a general "Civil Service exam" that my HR rep mentioned briefly when I was talking to him about where my Vet Pref applies. I think that goes hand in hand with the above idea.. now.. WHEN exactly in the whole process that it happens is completely open to speculation.

 

[workintheline]

I got a wq (95), college degree, and work exp so I'm hopefull
put ca and tx for my geopref, both are big w/ tons of facilities

 

[swinte00]

I got a wq (95), college degree, and work exp so I'm hopefull
put ca and tx for my geopref, both are big w/ tons of facilities

You should have chosen Guam

 

[BoomerSooner77]

I adore how everyone on here speaks with such authority on how the panels operate and what they see.

Were you guys the same ones that after 9/11 were running around telling everyone "Everyone go buy gas right now! By the end of the day it's going to be $12 a gallon!!!11one"

I had about an hour long conversation with a Personnel Specialist (not to be confused with your HR Specialist, different group) as the result of a formal request for the information. Here is what we discussed in regards to panels...

5. Applicant Selection
a. The ATO sends official to Oklahoma City , generally once per quarter, to review the referral lists. They review all announcements, not just General Public.
i. The officials review only the applicants’ application which is printed straight from ASAP. The only other information they see is the states you have selected from the geographical preferences and anything you entered into the comment box on your geographical preferences. Your AT-SAT score is NEVER made available to the selection panel.
b. The officials are allowed to pick applicants for their vacant slots from any of the Well Qualified referral lists and the VRA Qualified list. Veterans have FIRST priority. The officials are under no obligation to provide any reason verbal or written justifying why they did or did not select an applicant.
c. Once the selection officials have gone through at least all but 2 applicants on the Well Qualified referral lists, they are then authorized to begin selecting applicants from the Qualified Lists. (ie, if there are 300 applicants on the General Public – Well Qualified list, they may not begin selecting from the Qualified list until they’ve gone through at least 298 applicants.
d. Representatives from the Careers Division are with the selections officials during the process to ensure they adhere to OPM regulations.
f. Once selections are made, the referral list is submitted to the processing team in Oklahoma City .
i. The processing team then updates the database with the selections in order to begin setting up interviews and other processes.
g. A selection by the officials is NOT a guarantee of a position, it is a selection to interview.

So from this we can determine that there is not set guideline to say if person has X and/or X on their application that you pick them over this other person, it's subjective the offical(s) making the selections.

 

[mbalunda]

g. A selection by the officials is NOT a guarantee of a position, it is a selection to interview.

I think most of us know that is the case...but in most cases aren't those who are invited for an interview eventually hired? It's basically yours to lose at that point...correct?

 

[BoomerSooner77]

I think most of us know that is the case...but in most cases aren't those who are invited for an interview eventually hired? It's basically yours to lose at that point...correct?

In my opinion, yes. I have yet to get anyone at the FAA to admit that on the record.

 

[J1252]

I wonder if the people from the panels sit around a read these forums and laugh at the sheer amount of analysis and speculation on this part of the process.

 

[teetee]

In my opinion, yes. I have yet to get anyone at the FAA to admit that on the record.

I have had a guy that has been on the selection panel tell me this:

1. If you are invited to an interview as long as you show up and pass medical and everything, you have the job.

2. First preference goes to Veterans however if the selection panel sees a reference name on the application from a current controller chances are you will be selected. If the controller is from the facility you are slated for, you have a pretty much guaranteed job. When my husband was applying this guy told my husband to make sure he put his name on the application, it would help. I think he was right!

 

[realjv3]

2. First preference goes to Veterans however if the selection panel sees a reference name on the application from a current controller chances are you will be selected. If the controller is from the facility you are slated for, you have a pretty much guaranteed job. When my husband was applying this guy told my husband to make sure he put his name on the application, it would help. I think he was right!

I can't find a field on asap where I can input contact info for a reference. I checked the "User Information" tab & I reviewed my submitted pubnat 7 app, no place to enter references. Am I missing something?

 

[swinte00]

I can't find a field on asap where I can input contact info for a reference. I checked the "User Information" tab & I reviewed my submitted pubnat 7 app, no place to enter references. Am I missing something?

They'll ask everyone that knows you about your personality later... Just wait until you have to fill out the e-QIP hehe