Occupational Standards?

C150J

Well-Known Member
It has become apparent to me that the American Medical Association and American Bar Associations have successfully created occupational standards that limit the supply of doctors and attorneys, thereby increasing their respective compensation. Can our medical and legal professionals on this site chime in and possibly make some comparisons to aviation?

I don't know if he's a conspiracy theorist or not, but one of my lawyer friends CLAIMS that certain bar exams are adjusted to be more or less difficult based on the number of practicing attorneys in the state. Any truth to that?
 

wheelsup

Well-Known Member
I don't know if he's a conspiracy theorist or not, but one of my lawyer friends CLAIMS that certain bar exams are adjusted to be more or less difficult based on the number of practicing attorneys in the state. Any truth to that?
If true that should be illegal.
 

jynxyjoe

Queso King
They do it with teacher entry level tests. Everyone fails so they drop the passing grade to fill the spaces
 

Realms09

Well-Known Member
I have also heard the AMA controls the number of med school slots, but I can't confirm that with details.
 

OldTownPilot

Well-Known Member
For engineering there is the FE exam.....Not too difficult. It's not by any means required to be a engineer, but its the first step in getting your "stamp" for drawings/designs and such. After 4 years in the field you are then eligible to take the PE exam, which gives you your "stamp".

As for sliding the scale thing, i think it might be like the SATs and such where there is a predetermined shape of the distribution of the scores or a certain number or percentage that will pass. The FE is 'pass' or 'fail' no grade is given to the person taking the test.
 

USMCmech

Well-Known Member
I have also heard the AMA controls the number of med school slots, but I can't confirm that with details.
Not true.

Most medical schools are state run. The budget, and therefore the amount of slots are controlled by the board of regents.

Virtually every state is forcasting a serious shortage of doctors for the next 20-30 years. If they could possibly train more, they would.
 

HeyEng

NAHB Doesn't Give a Crap
If you REALLY think there is a shortage of lawyers, go open up your local yellow pages.
 

KLB

Well-Known Member
I don't think we need any type of "occupational standardization" per se. I believe that maybe the unions could put a little pressure on their respective companies to make the interview and hiring process more difficult. The training process could be more strenous also. That would ensure that the most qualified applicants make it through training.
 

SpiraMirabilis

Possible Subversive
I think it would be a great idea. Easy first step -- unions for various regional/feed carriers could get togeter and say: 'Don't accept any applications lower than pt 135 IFR minimums.'
 

skydog

New Member
The free market takes care of it already. Except for a couple of brief moments in airline history, getting "qualified" applicants has not been a problem.

However, if there is to be a occupational standard, it should not be be established by labor organizations, because labor organizations have demonstrated time and again that their "standards" change with the circumstances of the day. Also I sure don't some labor organization telling me how to run my business. Now if unions wants to establish standards for membership into the union, that's their choice.
 

SpiraMirabilis

Possible Subversive
Labor organizations already tell you how to run your business -- at least with regards to employees, their compensation, how they are treated, etc. Its the whole reason we have CBAs is to tell Management how to do business.
 

Realms09

Well-Known Member
Not true.

Most medical schools are state run. The budget, and therefore the amount of slots are controlled by the board of regents.
Yes, and here is what I was referring to. I do not know if the accusation was legitimate when it was raised, or if it still applies to today's regulatory makeup.

"Profession and monopoly, a book published in 1975 is critical of the AMA for limiting the supply of physicians and inflating the cost of medical care in the United States. The book claims that physician supply is kept low by the AMA to ensure high pay for practicing physicians. It states that in the United States the number, curriculum, and size of medical schools are restricted by state licensing boards controlled by representatives of state medical societies associated with the AMA." (Wikipedia)
 

wheelsup

Well-Known Member
Hate to say it but unions do the same thing just with collective bargaining. So you can't hate them for doing it. I still think it should be illegal to limit slots though.
 

skydog

New Member
Labor organizations already tell you how to run your business -- at least with regards to employees, their compensation, how they are treated, etc. Its the whole reason we have CBAs is to tell Management how to do business.
No they don't. They negotiate for those things. In return they give up other things. And at the end of the day, they get nothing but what management agrees to.
 

JoelT

Well-Known Member
No they don't. They negotiate for those things. In return they give up other things. And at the end of the day, they get nothing but what management agrees to.
Simplistic but accurate.

When we were negotiating at XJT many years ago one of the items on the table was putting a minimum flight hour requirement for captain upgrades (3000 hours). The intended effect was to cause the hiring of higher time pilots. However, the cost of that proposal was too high so it was abandoned. The company would have agreed to it but, it would have cost everyone some cash.

The following is not intended to be directed at anyone in particular but, it is just a contribution to the discussion. The biggest problem with creating an airline pilot's version of the AMA or the Bar that regulates minimum requirement is that there are so many recreational and private pilots. I seriously doubt that there are many folks that go to medical school to practice medicine just for fun. So, since anyone can be a pilot without any formal schooling or the need for a career then it is not practical for the FAA to regulate pilot licenses. The major problem with Unions doing this is that there are many unions unlike just one AMA. If there were just ALPA and every airline pilot belonged then it could be possible. Something more along the lines of the IBEW.
 

jtrain609

Antisocial Monster
You could set the standards high at the commercial pilots level. Keep private ratings where they are, but make a commercial ride much more like a type ride.
 

SpiraMirabilis

Possible Subversive
You could set the standards high at the commercial pilots level. Keep private ratings where they are, but make a commercial ride much more like a type ride.
But if you're a DE and fail too many students then ATP won't call you anymore :rolleyes: And that $800/day is hard to pass up mang!
 

CoffeeIcePapers

Well-Hung Member
I don't think we need any type of "occupational standardization" per se. I believe that maybe the unions could put a little pressure on their respective companies to make the interview and hiring process more difficult. The training process could be more strenous also. That would ensure that the most qualified applicants make it through training.

They could start by not hiring people with 250 hours.:laff::laff::laff:
 
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