Obama administration and user fees
- Thread starter wjmiller3
- Start date
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
Use any "ER" suffix callsign......
Ha! Awesome. Uhhhh "528ER remain clear of class bravo and prepare to copy VFR holding instructions".
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
I like how AOPA says that "GA is America's largest airline" more passengers being flown each day in GA than any commercial airline. Not to mention how many people work in the GA sector.
Just looking at Europe we can see how GA can suffer. Compared to the U.S, there is next to no GA in Europe. Why?
Weather Brief - Fee
Flight plan - Fee
Takeoff - Fee
Approach - Fee
Landing - Fee
And heaven forbid you have an emergency or weather sock in your destination and you need to divert.
Unscheduled Arrival - Fee
Why airline people like fees (mostly what has been said here before)
- Airlines would supposedly not be paying as much for the ATC system.
- Airline Pilots will be able to get better contracts. Why? Pilot Shortage = Leverage
Overall consensus - Greed
Why GA people don't want User Fees
- User fees tend to escalate once issued
- Job loss, whether it be a flight instructor or a factory worker at Cessna.
- Greed is an issue, but not all.
- Training costs increasing exponentially.
- Safety will become a large issue, pay an extra fee, or try to shoot an approach at or below minimums and force a landing when the Class C airport next door has an ILS that would guarantee a landing at the time?
Frankly I don't see the eccentric airline union guys even caring one lick about GA.
Just looking at Europe we can see how GA can suffer. Compared to the U.S, there is next to no GA in Europe. Why?
Weather Brief - Fee
Flight plan - Fee
Takeoff - Fee
Approach - Fee
Landing - Fee
And heaven forbid you have an emergency or weather sock in your destination and you need to divert.
Unscheduled Arrival - Fee
Why airline people like fees (mostly what has been said here before)
- Airlines would supposedly not be paying as much for the ATC system.
- Airline Pilots will be able to get better contracts. Why? Pilot Shortage = Leverage
Overall consensus - Greed
Why GA people don't want User Fees
- User fees tend to escalate once issued
- Job loss, whether it be a flight instructor or a factory worker at Cessna.
- Greed is an issue, but not all.
- Training costs increasing exponentially.
- Safety will become a large issue, pay an extra fee, or try to shoot an approach at or below minimums and force a landing when the Class C airport next door has an ILS that would guarantee a landing at the time?
Frankly I don't see the eccentric airline union guys even caring one lick about GA.
OhioStatePilot
Well-Known Member
I personally think user fees are crap. It's most likely going to create more government waste. How many more employees and effort is it going to require to track, record, bill, and then audit the user fees for accuracy?
I also think it's a safety concern because I'm sure we all know at least one pilot that will push the envelope every time just to avoid having to pay the fee. Or at the very least, dissuade pilots from flying in the system any more than they have to for currency.
I also think it's a safety concern because I'm sure we all know at least one pilot that will push the envelope every time just to avoid having to pay the fee. Or at the very least, dissuade pilots from flying in the system any more than they have to for currency.
Minnesota_Flyer
New Member
That's actually my biggest problem with user fees. I personally don't believe that the federal government is capable of collecting a $30 fee for less than $40.
Inverted25
Well-Known Member
From my understanding it will be charged for any time you use ATC. So if you want to avoid user fees just dont use ATC unless you have to. I too though am tired of the government always wanting more money. I say we all just avoid using ATC unless we have to and if possible burn auto fuel. In our cherokee we burn auto fuel and we get a tax rebate on the gasoline taxes since it isnt being used to power a car on the roads. So by using auto gas you evade all FAA taxes. Plus is just cheaper. Given not everyone can but if you have a low compression engine you can. I am not against paying for what we use but user fees will not work out. They figure it will bring in so much money baised on usuage right now. What they dont take into account is how many GA people will stop using ATC service to avoid the fees. They will fall way short of what they think they will bring in. Than they will just want to add more taxes to flying. User fees are a terrible way to fund it. It has been proven over seas. For those who think that only rich people fly they are out their minds. I know a ton of people who own airplanes who dont make a whole lot more than the average joe. Flying is just their passion so they use all their extra money there. If you make it more expensive they wont fly. It will just hurt GA. I think it will also make it more dangerous because more people will jsut fly around without talking to anyone just to avoid paying fees. I think its a bad idea. It wont work like they think it will it will just end up leaving them wanting more money.
ShyFlyer
CAP Member
This is one thing that user fee proponents ignore. To collect those fees, you would have to create another government agency to do it. Bureaucracy isn't cheap.
HeyEng
Well-Known Member
Yeah, it is called taxes, excise taxes. I suppose you also support a 19 cent increase in fuel tax and a toll and per mile tax? You use the roads, so you should be taxed out of your mind, right? Use a stop light...pay a tax. Commute during rush hour...pay a tax. Talk on your phone...pay a tax. Pass a car on the left...pay a tax. WHEN DOES IT STOP?!?
I am sick and tired of the government taxing me TO DEATH. And they are only increasing the tax payers bill for caring for me because I will be on BP medicine before it's all over with. Has anyone actually looked at a phone bill recently? There are 2 pages on mine that list TAXES ALONE!!!!
The wealthy are going to give up and stop investing in this country and we WILL BE SCREWED then. I have already heard many people who have done well for themselves are tightening their purse strings. Can you blame them?!?
And Obama wanting us to "share" the responsibility?!? YGTBFSM.
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
The Class C controllers near my airport actually asked us to pick up flight following whenever we could. Why? Training for controllers and the safety of our training flights. If these user fees are implemented a serious safety glitch will occur. My flight school will most likely not pay for the flight following on every flight. I am learning from one of my past instructors that was involved in a mid-air. Had he been in contact with ATC, a lot could have been different. Because of his accident I get fight following on most of my flights, especially when doing VOR work.
HeyEng
Well-Known Member
We just flip it on them. If they need it for training, we send a bill for THEIR user fees.
HA!!!! I can't stop laughing!!! When has that ever stopped them?
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
I just say you expand the Class D, C, B, and A airspaces.
Squeeze away as much Class E airspace as possible. . .
Squeeze away as much Class E airspace as possible. . .
HeyEng
Well-Known Member
I just say you expand the Class D, C, B, and A airspaces.
Squeeze away as much Class E airspace as possible. . .
Yep...that's probably already in the works. I need to pull out some European sectionals and take a look at out future.
ShyFlyer
CAP Member
It hasn't. But there are those people who think by creating a new agency is going to make everything better ::cough:: TSA ::cough::
WacoFan
Bigly
The bad thing is that excise taxes, user fees, etc are usually not progressive - they tend to hit the lower income people the hardest. Take gas taxes - many poor people can't drive extremely fuel efficient cars, or maintain their cars to provide peak effieciency. Many drive old cars that are burning more gas...and gas taxes hit them harder often times than people with money that can afford more efficient cars.
SIUav8er
Narcosis
I do. Its called a "fuel tax" among all the other taxes I pay (unlike MANY beneficiaries of government spending)
So why make it so others cant afford it by adding to the cost?
Exactly. So explain why congress felt the need to drain the general fund that was, and is, paid by avgas and jet-a taxes?
tprops4me
Well-Known Member
Ok, then give me a one time fee instead of a use fee. Makes one not want to call and get that weather brief. It will cause safety issues. People will ty to cheat the system making it dangerous for everyone else.
granlistillo
Well-Known Member
You got to be kidding. This idea that money raised by user fee will be earmarked for NAS system improvements is a joke. A bunch of smoke, mirrors and wooden dollars. Every dollar taken in will evaporate in the treasury probable as a expenditure for research on the mating habits of gophers. Only in the USA do politicians have the chutzpah to use terms like "social security trust fund or lock box."
GA pays taxes everytime they pump avgas, a whole lot of them never use ATC services. By all means if you want to reduce safety, please undermine the finest GA system in the world. But who pays the user fees for the NTSB investigations??
Penny unwise and Pound super foolish.
TGatch
Well-Known Member
I see that already ha.
