OAL Jumpseat Dilemma: Your thoughts.

You know Doug, if airline "A" guy had been standing at the podium when you walked up, you would have done the right thing by accepting that he simply beat you to the agent. Hanging out in the vicinity of the gate podium is not being in line - period. The first pilot standing at the podium is the first one in line and the next pilot in line is second. Every pilot should understand that, and if Pilot "A" didn't get it, perhaps it is time for him to become educated. The agent will ultimately sort it out based on policy and you are to be commended on your professionalism in representing yourself and your airline with honor. The situation would weigh on me a little because I don't like uncomfortable situations like you describe; however, in the end, what you did was the right thing, and isn't that really the standard that all of us should be striving to attain?:)

You did good friend.
 
Velocipede,

I wouldn't have cursed at you in public.

I would have gone to the union jumpseat coordinator, and humored myself by complaining.

............... I might even pay someone to put poop in your v-file. :nana2:
 
I jumpseat routinely to ORD from LAX or SFO. I do the same thing, as in, wait in line, regardless of whether the agent is there or not, so that if a guy comes running up, I'm already in line.

Last week, going from SFO-ORD on the red eye, me and another guy check in with the cockpit, planes all boarded up(B767), we go to grab our bags from the jetbridge, and the other jumpseater gets grabbed on the left shoulder from a mainline guy telling him he's taking the jumpseat. Talk about last minute. yes, its his airline, but the general rule is don't do it last minute and shoot the guy in the foot. The only reason why I got the seat is because we flipped a coin for it, even though I was there first, by 30 seconds. Jumpseating sucks.

Rumut is LAX is growing to 90-100 lines by years end, which would mean your truly will be based at home and holding a great line.
 
At least at on UAs computers, OAL jumpseaters are first come first serve. However, I once saw a UA FO get taken out of the JS by a VX guy who showed up at the last minute. Apparently it had something to do with the captain knowing the VX guy, but man was the bumped FO pissed.
 
Doug, as someone who was a gate agent (albeit for a verrry short time!) you handled it perfectly. The other guys were the bozos. Nothing worse, IMO, than a JS'er or any other airline employee acting like a horse's ass. :rolleyes: I one time had a hot-shot 777 CA who'd just come off the TLV flight and wanted to JS EWR-MCO. His attitude left ALOT to be desired. He pulled the, "I'm tired" routine and said if he didn't get a JS he was going to kill someone. Professional, eh. He also made the intelligent comment that he hoped there wouldn't be too many noisy kids on the flight. DUDE---you're flying to MCO!!! Unbeknownst to him, the senior agent I was working with had the reputation (deservedly so, I might add) for being the biggest bitch at EWR who didn't take crap from anyone. She put him in his place but he still stood there steaming. It was poetic justice when that a/c had a mechanical, an a/c swap due to mechanical, a gate change due to a/c swap. I had to leave that gate to work other flights, but was a bit amused to see that flight didn't leave until 4 hours later. What a jackass. :whatever:

As a FA, it always pissed me off to see JS'ers (as well as non-revs) acting totally out of line. How embarrassing and frustrating it is to have to ask someone who should know better how to act on a flight?! Is it any wonder some pax act the way they do? They see airline employees acting like they're somehow different and can ignore the rules (and common decency). Honestly, how hard is it to sit there, keep your mouth shut and act pleasant? :banghead:
 
mrivc211 said:
Jumpseating sucks.
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Cheers to that!


I learned a couple lessons a few weeks ago. The first about attempting to build jumpseat karma, the second about being honest to crew scheduling.

I was on long call reserve last month and for the last 3 days of the month they converted me to short call reserve which meant I needed to be in Atlanta. I reserved the 6am jumpseat out of LIT and showed up with more than enough time. Its good that I chose this flight because the 730am flight was already cancelled.

When I got there I found out that the plane had broken when it came in the night before but they were fixing it and it should be ready soon. Of course "soon" stretched out to 15 mins....30 mins....1 hour, 2 hours, etc. I try to be an honest person and don't want to put crew scheduling into a "spot" where they need cancel a flight because I'm not there. Once the delay made it so that I wouldn't be making it to ATL in time for my reserve period I called to let crew scheduling know. I pointed out that I'd still be there before they'd actually be able to assign me anything (2 hour call out) and she said "ok no problem. Just keep us advised".

So the delay stretches more and another flight arrives. The word now is that "its fixed, they're just doing a runup now and will be leaving shortly after the flight that just arrived leaves". A mainline jumpseater shows up for the one that just got there so I went up to talk to him. Because the flight was on my airline I had priority and could have bumped him. He was going to fly an actual trip and I was just heading to reserve so I let him have the jumpseat. Besides, I already told scheduling that I'd be a little late and that I'd be arriving on the origional flight.

So of course, the second that flight pushed from the gate, they announced that the original flight was cancelled. I called scheduling to "keep them advised". I was not so politely informed that I was being marked as "unavailable during reserve" and that I "might as well go home now. We probably were going to need you later today but since you're stuck...blah blah blah". I told her "well if you're going to need me I'll keep trying to make it. I'll call you when I get in."

So I finally got on the next flight, arrived about 5 hours late alltogether. I call to let them know I'm there and to see if they have anything for me. The person I talked to seemed surprised that I didn't just go home, and she said "we really don't have anything for you".

Long story short, I sit around the airport for 3 days, get two nights in a hotel (the amount I've had to be in ATL has not made a crasphad a cheaper option), call scheduling to beg for work every couple hours, only to not be used. And every time they told me "yeah, we probably won't have anything for you today" I asked if I could be released to long call reserve like I was originally scheduled for last month, they said no.

Two lessons learned:

1) Sometimes I'm too nice

2) Scheduling has taken away my motivation to ever be honest with them or do favors. Policy is policy, but two cancelled flights is a bit out of my control.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
1) Sometimes I'm too nice

2) Scheduling has taken away my motivation to ever be honest with them or do favors. Policy is policy, but two cancelled flights is a bit out of my control.
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Like I said man, you're better off now. These contracts we have are two way streets, most companies will absolutely TORCH any pilot who violates even the smallest part of the contract, no benefit of the doubt, no leeway no nothing. The only thing you can do is return the favor by knowing your contract and not doing a single thing you're not required to do, barring extenuating circumcstances. It's sad that it comes to that, but that's the way it works. By the same token you have to make sure that you do everything that you ARE required to do, or BOHICA and the union can't/won't help. Unfortunately I know from experience :D

You would think a good employee for several years who has one minor screw up with scheduling, and hasn't called in sick much might get the benefit of the doubt? Nope, you will get a letter 99% of the time. It's sad because that kind of mentality will go a long way toward destroying a person's work ethic. Why treat everyone like they're a piece of crap even if there's no basis for that in their work history? Bad managememet technique IMO, but I digress...... In no way should we take this out on passengers, but knowing the contract and flying the contract is something I am learning the importance of more and more as time passes. In the absence of a contract, I can only hope our non-union counterparts have some sort of rules or guidelines to go by.

I was ever a big gung ho union guy before this job, but now I can't fathom being a scheduling slave without a contract.
 
As a favor to me and fellow j/s eligible crew members please do not raise cane because you dont get your first choice. I have heard and had to deal with several problems at our airline about j/sing crew members.

Doug I do not think you did anything wrong. If those other pilots did not work for that airline then they can go pound sand. I had to j/s back to JFK out of LAX and there was another guy who came up after me trying to get to work. Now I was sort of in a rush but not too rushed to say hey man I can take the next flight. Going home or going to see your squeeze is another issue in my opinion. If two crew members walk up to the agent at the same time and one is going to work and one is going to play then I think that the two should be mature and see if there are any other alternates they could use.

All crew members please remember that the j/s is a privledge that tsa wants to take away more than a fat kid trying to get your lunch money. Be respectful and curteous and remember that you are an additional crew member, act like it! That is all from me. :)
 
Screaming_Emu said:
So the delay stretches more and another flight arrives. The word now is that "its fixed, they're just doing a runup now and will be leaving shortly after the flight that just arrived leaves". A mainline jumpseater shows up for the one that just got there so I went up to talk to him. Because the flight was on my airline I had priority and could have bumped him. He was going to fly an actual trip and I was just heading to reserve so I let him have the jumpseat.
Two lessons learned:

1) Sometimes I'm too nice
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Yep, you were too nice. I honestly wouldn't have done that. Don't let sympathy for someone else keep you from getting to work and/or make you waste more of your time in the airport. When I commute to a trip, I know I need to leave early and have a backup plan. If that jumpseat on that flight was the mainline jumpseater's only way to make his trip, he didn't plan properly. You were at the airport early trying to get to work while that guy was still at home. Don't reward his lack of planning. Jumpseating offfline is always a gamble and that guy should have known better.

Everytime I push my luck and don't give myself enough options to get to work, I am fully prepared to be a big boy and make the call(s) I need to make and deal with it.

I bumped a mainline CAL guy off of an XJT flight last summer and he was pretty upset about it. I felt bad at first, but then I thought of all the times I was bumped off CAL flights by CAL pilots. It's the way the game is played. The next time I saw the CAL guy he actually appologised to me about the incident and it turned out he made it to work that day anyway on a two-leg backup plan he had.

It all has a way of working out in the end. In about 2 years of commuting, I've only had 2 notable incidents. Once I got a missed tip for not making it to an airport reserve assignment when a commute fell apart due to weather and ATC. I was able to use our commuter policy to get that removed. Another time I delayed a flight by 21 minutes. I never heard from the chief pilot's office about that one, but I did work with crew scheduling as best I could and I'm sure they were happy I just showed up, since it was right before Christmas. All of that followed getting bumped, going on a two-leg backup plan, a diversion and cancellation, and then another two-leg backup plan that should have got me there with plenty of time, but the last leg pushed off the gate a little late and had a lot of taxi time and strong headwinds. Some of the more interesting chapters in Adventures in Commuting are about all the other times when I made it!
 
Here's a slightly different perspective on it:

Just finished a trip. My airline doesn't have a flight home for several more hours. So I transfer terminals, list via phone for the next "Beagle Airlines" flight out. By the time I get to the terminal it's too late. No big deal, I walk over to the NEXT flight, also on "Beagle." Nobody's there, not even a gate agent.

At this point I usually wander the airport (staying close to the departure gate), passively looking for a non-busy gate agent so I can check in. I find food before finding a gate agent, so grab a quick sandwich (10min, tops.) Head back to the gate, and by now the gate agent is there. I check in, and at this point I am number 2, behind someone who not only was NOT there when I was, but works for my airline AND is junior to me. I politely ask about this, doesn't matter. The junior pilot was able to connect with the gate agent first, and since it's Beagle there is no priority other than first come first served.

Long story short, I wait by the gate. They are weight restricted. Junior pilot gets the last seat, I would have been next on. Missed the flight. It sucks big time to be the 'other' guy in the story. Not that I would have done anything different if I were you, Doug.
 
Doug Taylor said:
Mr. Toad's Wild Ride is off the heezy.
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And gone from Walt Disney World totally. It was replaced by that blasted Pooh ride.


Velo's situation would have earned two phone calls out of me: one to pro stands and one to the JS coordinator. I'd say some time of not having commuting privileges so the guy could sit and think about what he did might improve his attitude.
 
E_Dawg said:
At this point I usually wander the airport (staying close to the departure gate), passively looking for a non-busy gate agent so I can check in. I find food before finding a gate agent, so grab a quick sandwich (10min, tops.) Head back to the gate, and by now the gate agent is there. I check in, and at this point I am number 2, behind someone who not only was NOT there when I was, but works for my airline AND is junior to me. I politely ask about this, doesn't matter. The junior pilot was able to connect with the gate agent first, and since it's Beagle there is no priority other than first come first served.

Long story short, I wait by the gate. They are weight restricted. Junior pilot gets the last seat, I would have been next on. Missed the flight. It sucks big time to be the 'other' guy in the story. Not that I would have done anything different if I were you, Doug.
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Why does it bother you that a junior pilot got the jumpseat ahead of you? I can't believe you would try to bring your seniority into the equation and try to screw one of your own coworkers out of a ride home while jumpseating on a completely different airline. If I saw that happen to me, I would be on the phone with my union's JS committee chairman. Offline, it's typically first-come-first-served. You snooze you lose. The regional FO bumps the 777 captain. Don't hate the player, hate the game :D. If your seniority means that much to you, use your bigger paycheck and have a ZED ticket or ID90 in your back pocket. Boarding priority for either of those should be higher than for any jumpseater even if you list and check in after they did.

Mike
 
joliet said:
I would have gone to the union jumpseat coordinator, and humored myself by complaining.
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Maybe I'm missing something, but what would he have had to complain about? The QX agent and flight attendant were 100% right and he was 100% wrong. About me? All I did was:

1. Show up first.
2. Let the QX people do their jobs.
3. Without comment.

kellwolf said:
Velo's situation would have earned two phone calls out of me: one to pro stands and one to the JS coordinator. I'd say some time of not having commuting privileges so the guy could sit and think about what he did might improve his attitude.
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The only problem with that is you've got to know this dude. It wouldn't have changed his attitude a bit. My daughter's best friend moved in next door to him when she was 13.

She was walking her dog on a leash one day and this chump runs out and starts screaming at her about letting her dog in his yard. Except:

1. It wasn't her dog's feces.
2. She wasn't present when the act occured.

Like I said...bipolar at best.
 
Van_Hoolio said:
Why does it bother you that a junior pilot got the jumpseat ahead of you? I can't believe you would try to bring your seniority into the equation and try to screw one of your own coworkers out of a ride home while jumpseating on a completely different airline. If I saw that happen to me, I would be on the phone with my union's JS committee chairman. Offline, it's typically first-come-first-served. You snooze you lose. The regional FO bumps the 777 captain. Don't hate the player, hate the game :D. If your seniority means that much to you, use your bigger paycheck and have a ZED ticket or ID90 in your back pocket. Boarding priority for either of those should be higher than for any jumpseater even if you list and check in after they did.

Mike
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Hi Mike, I don't really understand the anger dripping from your post. I was just sharing what happened to me. The whole industry runs on seniority, and believe me those senior to me have no problem bumping my sorry ass if/when they are able. As jtrain said there are no friends when commuting. That said those who have bumped me in the past have been professional, as have I during the few times I have had to bump someone else.

In that particular situation, I was at the gate first, I was listed, and I was senior. Through my own fault I just didn't connect with the gate agent until it was too late, and therefore did not get on the plane. No harm, no foul. I don't know what is so offensive about that....

Lastly, I said I 'politely asked' if seniority takes preference. Different airlines have different procedures. I was informed of the policy. That's a bit different than trying to, as you put it, "screw one of your own coworkers out of a ride home while jumpseating", wouldn't you say?
 
I don't know how you guys/gals commute. My stomach gets all knotted up when I try to non-rev somewhere. I can't imagine doing it before and after every trip! Though, at some point I'll probably have to.
 
the cross country commute sucks for the most part but i usually have little to no competition since most people are sane! :)
 
Velocipede said:
The only problem with that is you've got to know this dude. It wouldn't have changed his attitude a bit. My daughter's best friend moved in next door to him when she was 13.

She was walking her dog on a leash one day and this chump runs out and starts screaming at her about letting her dog in his yard. Except:

1. It wasn't her dog's feces.
2. She wasn't present when the act occured.

Like I said...bipolar at best.
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Eh, maybe not bipolar. I tend to be a little oversensitive on the bipolar comments since my wife is hardcore diagnosed with bipolar, though. If anything, he's an argument for why brain meds actually make safer and more stable pilots than unmedicated ones. :)
 
Dougie Fresh, no worries you did the right thing. As a fellow JFK commuter I know how cut throat it can get trying to get home. Doing JFK turns all month, P.M. if your going to be around. I truly owe you at least a vanilla frosted donut.
 
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