Norwegian Deny NAI / now DOT-approved

Welp...

"This case is among the most novel and complex ever undertaken by the department,” Jenny Rosenberg, acting assistant secretary for international affairs, wrote in the nine-page decision. “Regardless of our appreciation of the public policy arguments raised by opponents, we have been advised that the law and our bilateral obligations leave us no avenue to reject this application."
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/trave...ves-contested-norwegian-air-flights/94838292/
 
This bothers me, a lot.

article said:
“Opponents have also raised another novel and important argument that goes directly to a central legal feature of the Agreement. By arguing that NAI represents a “flag of convenience,” opponents lose sight of this key feature of the Agreement: that under the concept of a “Community airline,” any carrier may fly under the flag of any European Union country, as well as Norway or Iceland, as long as it is satisfactorily owned and controlled by citizens of those countries.”
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This sound like if I'm reading right, which I hope that I'm wrong. They're saying if you can't beat em, join em. That it can work both ways. Essentially saying that DAL, UAL, AAL et al. can also fly under a Flag of Convience of any European Union country as well.
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
This sound like if I'm reading right, which I hope that I'm wrong. They're saying if you can't beat em, join em. That it can work both ways. Essentially saying that DAL, UAL, AAL et al. can also fly under a Flag of Convience of any European Union country as well.
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Well... US airlines have to be 51% US owned... So that kind puts the kibosh on that.
 
Dan208B said:
Well... US airlines have to be 51% US owned... So that kind puts the kibosh on that.
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Well, at least that's a small comfort...

But what do you think U.S. carriers will do to combat this? Set up B scale subsidiary carriers akin to NAI, like they do in Europe?

That would be bad too, to finally escape the regionals and still not be on the A Team.
 
Does anyone here think this is a good thing?

I do. Now there are more options for Americans to get to Europe and vice-versa, which drives economies on both ends.
 
hook_dupin said:
Does anyone here think this is a good thing?

I do. Now there are more options for Americans to get to Europe and vice-versa, which drives economies on both ends.
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With a comment like that, you obviously are oblivious to what is going on here. It is not a good thing for the airline labor force in the US...not in the least bit....Are you familiar with the shipping/boating industry and what happened to them? May want to do some research....

I know nothing about you or what your aviation goals are but I see in your profile about being kept away from your minimum wage CFI JOB....This type of operation that NAI has set up, will help you stay in low paying aviation jobs for years to come.
 
I don't think this would "destroy" the US market so to speak. But I think it would seriously curtail legacy wide-body international flying. And it may be the real reason we're seeing United begin to refocus on its domestic flying and American basically do the same.

What are the chances a US LCC like Spirit or Allegiant would partner with Norwegian to bring domestic passengers to a hub Norwegian services? They could conceivably offer a round-trip ticket to destinations in Europe for a small fraction of what it currently costs. Perhaps good for stimulating travel, but at the expense of thousands of US jobs. I'm hoping the new administration will put a nail in this coffin.
 
chrisreedrules said:
I don't think this would "destroy" the US market so to speak. But I think it would seriously curtail legacy wide-body international flying. And it may be the real reason we're seeing United begin to refocus on its domestic flying and American basically do the same.

What are the chances a US LCC like Spirit or Allegiant would partner with Norwegian to bring domestic passengers to a hub Norwegian services? They could conceivably offer a round-trip ticket to destinations in Europe for a small fraction of what it currently costs. Perhaps good for stimulating travel, but at the expense of thousands of US jobs. I'm hoping the new administration will put a nail in this coffin.
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I think that you forget that it's the oligarchs that are pushing for globalization. And Trump is an elite. You think he's going to help the aviation industry. When his clothing products are made in China, Bangladesh and Indonesia all to save a buck.
 
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Maximillian_Jenius said:
I think that you forget that it's the oligarchs that are pushing for globalization. And Trump is an elite. You think he's going to help the aviation industry. When his clothing products are made in China, Bangledesh and Indonesia all to saveca buck.
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I am not disillusioned about who Trump is. His platform however was one of saving US jobs. If he wants to do that, this will be a good place to start.
 
chrisreedrules said:
I am not disillusioned about who Trump is. His platform however was one of saving US jobs. If he wants to do that, this will be a good place to start.
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Then he won't do a damn thing to reverse this. How many orders does Boeing have from NAI and the ME3? How many other low cost startup/domestic airlines will place large orders for long range planes now that this gate is open? There are plenty of higher paying jobs with Boeing then with the legacies. You said it yourself that the legacies will not go away they will just shrink their international route structure. To think this will be easily reversed or if Trump will reverse it to save jobs is disingenuous.
 
amorris311 said:
Then he won't do a damn thing to reverse this. How many orders does Boeing have from NAI and the ME3? How many other low cost startup/domestic airlines will place large orders for long range planes now that this gate is open? There are plenty of higher paying jobs with Boeing then with the legacies. You said it yourself that the legacies will not go away they will just shrink their international route structure. To think this will be easily reversed or if Trump will reverse it to save jobs is disingenuous.
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Which is exactly what I feared would happen. We'll see how this all shakes out I suppose. All the more reason to diversify yourself and have a plan B. This industry really has a way of being a drag sometimes.
 
amorris311 said:
Then he won't do a damn thing to reverse this. How many orders does Boeing have from NAI and the ME3? How many other low cost startup/domestic airlines will place large orders for long range planes now that this gate is open? There are plenty of higher paying jobs with Boeing then with the legacies. You said it yourself that the legacies will not go away they will just shrink their international route structure. To think this will be easily reversed or if Trump will reverse it to save jobs is disingenuous.
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I don't think anyone could necessarily reverse it, Trump or otherwise. The bigger problem I see, is that our government seems to have no issue with foreign airlines being free to compete, yet we throw hoops in front of our own domestic airlines that they have to jump through, instead of lessening restrictions/requirements on them, and allowing them more freedom to be competitive. If anything, and in the spirit of "America first", we should be doing what we can give our domestic carriers as much a leg up as possible. Instead, it seems that we may be seeing cabotage restrictions slowly being chipped away.
 
chrisreedrules said:
I don't think this would "destroy" the US market so to speak. But I think it would seriously curtail legacy wide-body international flying. And it may be the real reason we're seeing United begin to refocus on its domestic flying and American basically do the same.

What are the chances a US LCC like Spirit or Allegiant would partner with Norwegian to bring domestic passengers to a hub Norwegian services? They could conceivably offer a round-trip ticket to destinations in Europe for a small fraction of what it currently costs. Perhaps good for stimulating travel, but at the expense of thousands of US jobs. I'm hoping the new administration will put a nail in this coffin.
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This could absolutely destroy our industry. Look at what happened to the Merchant Marines.

What's not to say now that a current US Flagged airline will reflag their airplanes in Ireland and abide by the concept NAI is going to use?
 
Seggy said:
This could absolutely destroy our industry. Look at what happened to the Merchant Marines.

What's not to say now that a current US Flagged airline will reflag their airplanes in Ireland and abide by the concept NAI is going to use?
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So how do we stop it?
 
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