No more screening for pilots?
- Thread starter av8trxx
- Start date
av8trxx
Well-Known Member
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Everything is possible. I'm not going to give ideas ( we can all think of at least a dozen, I am sure) but with time the terrorists could infiltrate somebody as a worker in an airline, here in the US or in another country.
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With the background checks pilot go through it would be highly unlikely. Ground crew is another matter, although the background checks have gotten stricter.
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Are you saying that if you wanted you could take a gun to the cockpit and nobody would know?
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If you read the post, I said that there are countless items onboard (plus the a/c itself) that could be used as a weapon, so IMO, screening pilots is pointless. We could fly naked and still be 'armed' once we get onboard. The screening is redundant. So what if we beep when there is a crash axe at our disposal on board???
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Well I think everybody is concern, general public and professionals alike. If your saying that a even more people (badge holders) don't go through security, then you should say something, since general public doesn't know what happens behind the curtains in an airport, ( I'd assumed that everybody with access to an airplane is searched)
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If you think that everyone who works at the airport goes through security and their belongings screened, you are mistaken. Only the flight crews are made to go. (Go figure.) The ground personnel (airline, cleaners, contract ect) are not required to go through any official TSA security checkpoint at many airports, although each airline may have their own contract security at certain points of entry. In the 17 years I worked on the ground, I never had to go through security to access the ramp or the jetways. I get checked more as I pilot than I ever did as a ground employee.
Everything is possible. I'm not going to give ideas ( we can all think of at least a dozen, I am sure) but with time the terrorists could infiltrate somebody as a worker in an airline, here in the US or in another country.
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With the background checks pilot go through it would be highly unlikely. Ground crew is another matter, although the background checks have gotten stricter.
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Are you saying that if you wanted you could take a gun to the cockpit and nobody would know?
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If you read the post, I said that there are countless items onboard (plus the a/c itself) that could be used as a weapon, so IMO, screening pilots is pointless. We could fly naked and still be 'armed' once we get onboard. The screening is redundant. So what if we beep when there is a crash axe at our disposal on board???
[ QUOTE ]
Well I think everybody is concern, general public and professionals alike. If your saying that a even more people (badge holders) don't go through security, then you should say something, since general public doesn't know what happens behind the curtains in an airport, ( I'd assumed that everybody with access to an airplane is searched)
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If you think that everyone who works at the airport goes through security and their belongings screened, you are mistaken. Only the flight crews are made to go. (Go figure.) The ground personnel (airline, cleaners, contract ect) are not required to go through any official TSA security checkpoint at many airports, although each airline may have their own contract security at certain points of entry. In the 17 years I worked on the ground, I never had to go through security to access the ramp or the jetways. I get checked more as I pilot than I ever did as a ground employee.
LISRAREF
Well-Known Member
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Are you saying that if you wanted you could take a gun to the cockpit and nobody would know?
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If you read the post, I said that there are countless items onboard (plus the a/c itself) that could be used as a weapon, so IMO, screening pilots is pointless. We could fly naked and still be 'armed' once we get onboard. The screening is redundant. So what if we beep when there is a crash axe at our disposal on board???
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Have you ever heard George Carlins run about Airport Security? "A man could easily kill a flight attendant if he has big hands...and hes not a threat......". He goes on about much more including a table knife, a sunday NY Times, and a bunch of other things. He also continues on about airline cabin announcements. Shows the realistic sad things we face today...
And I know of a personal friend of mine. He had surgery to put a morphine pump in his back. He has a signed and notarized NYS Health department card and paper saying it and it is notarized and signed. He brought it with him to the checkpoint and of course it set off the metal detector. Lets just say he was dropped to his skivies regardless and given a no restriction look....
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Are you saying that if you wanted you could take a gun to the cockpit and nobody would know?
[/ QUOTE ]
If you read the post, I said that there are countless items onboard (plus the a/c itself) that could be used as a weapon, so IMO, screening pilots is pointless. We could fly naked and still be 'armed' once we get onboard. The screening is redundant. So what if we beep when there is a crash axe at our disposal on board???
[/ QUOTE ]
Have you ever heard George Carlins run about Airport Security? "A man could easily kill a flight attendant if he has big hands...and hes not a threat......". He goes on about much more including a table knife, a sunday NY Times, and a bunch of other things. He also continues on about airline cabin announcements. Shows the realistic sad things we face today...
And I know of a personal friend of mine. He had surgery to put a morphine pump in his back. He has a signed and notarized NYS Health department card and paper saying it and it is notarized and signed. He brought it with him to the checkpoint and of course it set off the metal detector. Lets just say he was dropped to his skivies regardless and given a no restriction look....
Captain_Bob
Well-Known Member
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How about that cool x-ray machine like in Total Recall? Those people just breezed through there until Arnold showed up......
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Hey kellwolf,
Closer than you think... ? Air travelers stripped bare with X-ray machine
How about that cool x-ray machine like in Total Recall? Those people just breezed through there until Arnold showed up......
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Hey kellwolf,
Closer than you think... ? Air travelers stripped bare with X-ray machine
SmitteyB
Well-Known Member
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Even if this guy was a terrorist, would the Burger King rejects working at the TSA be able to spot this? I think not. Are these morons trained to spot fake airline IDs?
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That is out of line, come on. I wouldn't call someone a moron just because they're trying to put food on the table. Proofread your posts before pressing the button.
Even if this guy was a terrorist, would the Burger King rejects working at the TSA be able to spot this? I think not. Are these morons trained to spot fake airline IDs?
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That is out of line, come on. I wouldn't call someone a moron just because they're trying to put food on the table. Proofread your posts before pressing the button.
shinysideup
New Member
One thing we all may have overlooked in this topic.
The Terrorists from 9-11 all had some flight training. Who is to say that there were not other plans in place. Such as, just off the top of my head, have others continue flight training, become licensed pilots, and ultimately make it into a pilot seat for an airline. Maybe not a US airline, but an airline employee in another country who is able to get into the US. Access to aircraft, more lax screening...etc
That is the only reason I can think that is important that all of us are continually searched.
The Terrorists from 9-11 all had some flight training. Who is to say that there were not other plans in place. Such as, just off the top of my head, have others continue flight training, become licensed pilots, and ultimately make it into a pilot seat for an airline. Maybe not a US airline, but an airline employee in another country who is able to get into the US. Access to aircraft, more lax screening...etc
That is the only reason I can think that is important that all of us are continually searched.
chrisdahut1
Well-Known Member
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I love how every station I go to has completely different procedures, also subject to who's in charge. My shoes only set off a couple metal detectors.... not to mention WHY DOES AKRON HAVE THE NAZI'S OF THE SYSTEM??? It's a tiny freaking airport and they go freaking ape there.
In TLH one time I was jumpseating on DAL in plain clothes. I had my crew bags and ID's.... the guy went nuts on me. I was polite and said "no sir... I do not have to have a boarding pass." He kept on going.. I could see his power trip beginning. I was like "do you want to go ask your supervisor and save yourself the embarrassment.. the line is just getting longer... I think I've done this a few times." Needless to say I was motioned through moments later. At least most of them know me down there.
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True story......3 weeks ago I walked up and showed my ID to the TSA person. I was in uniform (jacket and hat, the whole deal) with my rollerboard and flight case. Not only that, this was in FLL, which is a base for CHQ. She asks me if I have a boarding pass! It was priceless!
I love how every station I go to has completely different procedures, also subject to who's in charge. My shoes only set off a couple metal detectors.... not to mention WHY DOES AKRON HAVE THE NAZI'S OF THE SYSTEM??? It's a tiny freaking airport and they go freaking ape there.
In TLH one time I was jumpseating on DAL in plain clothes. I had my crew bags and ID's.... the guy went nuts on me. I was polite and said "no sir... I do not have to have a boarding pass." He kept on going.. I could see his power trip beginning. I was like "do you want to go ask your supervisor and save yourself the embarrassment.. the line is just getting longer... I think I've done this a few times." Needless to say I was motioned through moments later. At least most of them know me down there.
[/ QUOTE ]
True story......3 weeks ago I walked up and showed my ID to the TSA person. I was in uniform (jacket and hat, the whole deal) with my rollerboard and flight case. Not only that, this was in FLL, which is a base for CHQ. She asks me if I have a boarding pass! It was priceless!
skydog
New Member
1) Pilots should be screened. It is easy get hold of a pilot uniform, and pilot credentials are probably not that hard to forge.
2) Pilots should wait in line like everybody else. There are many people who work in the secure area of an airport. Only a small number of those are pilots. Why is a pilot's need to clear security greater than anyone else's?
2) Pilots should wait in line like everybody else. There are many people who work in the secure area of an airport. Only a small number of those are pilots. Why is a pilot's need to clear security greater than anyone else's?
PeanuckleCRJ
Poodle Wrangler
Skydog- did you not read the numerous previous posts on how many other workers go through without screening?
Besides... there are a number of airports that I go to where we bypass screening anyways.
Besides... there are a number of airports that I go to where we bypass screening anyways.
Hmm, I wasn't aware that other airport employees have to stand in the regular security lines.
I think that it is reaosnable to expect pilots to go through security just because they could, if they wanted to, pass prohibited items to other people.
I think that crew members and certain airport employees should have access to the special security lines. Of course you cannot allow food services or store employees through that. It should be limited to airline employees and airport employees.
Mahesh
I think that it is reaosnable to expect pilots to go through security just because they could, if they wanted to, pass prohibited items to other people.
I think that crew members and certain airport employees should have access to the special security lines. Of course you cannot allow food services or store employees through that. It should be limited to airline employees and airport employees.
Mahesh
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2) Why is a pilot's need to clear security greater than anyone else's?
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Unlike pax, who have nothing to do but wait; aircrew need to pick up the dispatch, check the WX, get to the plane to prep, preflight, etc. There's stuff they have to do, that the pax don't. Pax just need to get their Starbucks, sit at the gate, and read magazines or talk on the cell phone. That's why they should be able to go through ahead of others. It has nothing to do with pilots being "better" than anyone else, as is being inferred above.
2) Why is a pilot's need to clear security greater than anyone else's?
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Unlike pax, who have nothing to do but wait; aircrew need to pick up the dispatch, check the WX, get to the plane to prep, preflight, etc. There's stuff they have to do, that the pax don't. Pax just need to get their Starbucks, sit at the gate, and read magazines or talk on the cell phone. That's why they should be able to go through ahead of others. It has nothing to do with pilots being "better" than anyone else, as is being inferred above.
av8trxx
Well-Known Member
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1) Pilots should be screened. It is easy get hold of a pilot uniform, and pilot credentials are probably not that hard to forge.
2) Pilots should wait in line like everybody else. There are many people who work in the secure area of an airport. Only a small number of those are pilots. Why is a pilot's need to clear security greater than anyone else's?
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Seemingly good points to people who aren't in the business.
1) While anyone can order a uniform on the net or attempt forge an ID, they cannot get their name on the paperwork! At stations where crews bypass security to get to their a/c, agents have a list of flight crew names for flights and can verify who is supposed to be let through.
2) MikeD covered that nicely. If pilots had to wait in the longer lines line like everybody else, then hundreds of flights would be late everyday! I am not getting paid till that brake drops, so I am certainly not getting up an extra hour early to come to work so I can wait in line behind people who have nothing better to do that go to their gate and wait for the crew to preflight so they can board anyway.
1) Pilots should be screened. It is easy get hold of a pilot uniform, and pilot credentials are probably not that hard to forge.
2) Pilots should wait in line like everybody else. There are many people who work in the secure area of an airport. Only a small number of those are pilots. Why is a pilot's need to clear security greater than anyone else's?
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Seemingly good points to people who aren't in the business.
1) While anyone can order a uniform on the net or attempt forge an ID, they cannot get their name on the paperwork! At stations where crews bypass security to get to their a/c, agents have a list of flight crew names for flights and can verify who is supposed to be let through.
2) MikeD covered that nicely. If pilots had to wait in the longer lines line like everybody else, then hundreds of flights would be late everyday! I am not getting paid till that brake drops, so I am certainly not getting up an extra hour early to come to work so I can wait in line behind people who have nothing better to do that go to their gate and wait for the crew to preflight so they can board anyway.
ERfly
Well-Known Member
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2) Pilots should wait in line like everybody else. There are many people who work in the secure area of an airport. Only a small number of those are pilots. Why is a pilot's need to clear security greater than anyone else's?
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Fine, you can have it that way. However, I will not show at the airport more than 45 prior at an outstation. If your flight is late and you miss your connection, oh well. At least you got to walk across the "Blue Carpet."
Any other XJeters like me? I want an Elite Access Welcome Mat.
2) Pilots should wait in line like everybody else. There are many people who work in the secure area of an airport. Only a small number of those are pilots. Why is a pilot's need to clear security greater than anyone else's?
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Fine, you can have it that way. However, I will not show at the airport more than 45 prior at an outstation. If your flight is late and you miss your connection, oh well. At least you got to walk across the "Blue Carpet."
Any other XJeters like me? I want an Elite Access Welcome Mat.
Bog
New Member
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2) Why is a pilot's need to clear security greater than anyone else's?
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Unlike pax, who have nothing to do but wait; aircrew need to pick up the dispatch, check the WX, get to the plane to prep, preflight, etc. There's stuff they have to do, that the pax don't. Pax just need to get their Starbucks, sit at the gate, and read magazines or talk on the cell phone. That's why they should be able to go through ahead of others. It has nothing to do with pilots being "better" than anyone else, as is being inferred above.
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Amen. Besides, when I'm already scheduled for a 14+ hour day after 8 hours of "rest" .. meaning 4 hours of sleep ... I refuse to extend my day any longer just to wait in line at security.
The orders may come from someone in D.C., but I swear they're sent in different languages to each airport. No three work the same way.
Three times in the past three years, I've had my laptop checked for explosives. Three times out of what ... 3000? I removed my battery, and apparently that EMPTY SPACE looks suspicious. Ooooooh scary! An empty space! It might contain air!
TSA is a joke. If we're going to create another federal entity for the tax dollars to kindle, let's at least do it right. Perusing my dirty drawers to ask if my nail clippers have a file will not save the world.
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2) Why is a pilot's need to clear security greater than anyone else's?
[/ QUOTE ]
Unlike pax, who have nothing to do but wait; aircrew need to pick up the dispatch, check the WX, get to the plane to prep, preflight, etc. There's stuff they have to do, that the pax don't. Pax just need to get their Starbucks, sit at the gate, and read magazines or talk on the cell phone. That's why they should be able to go through ahead of others. It has nothing to do with pilots being "better" than anyone else, as is being inferred above.
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Amen. Besides, when I'm already scheduled for a 14+ hour day after 8 hours of "rest" .. meaning 4 hours of sleep ... I refuse to extend my day any longer just to wait in line at security.
The orders may come from someone in D.C., but I swear they're sent in different languages to each airport. No three work the same way.
Three times in the past three years, I've had my laptop checked for explosives. Three times out of what ... 3000? I removed my battery, and apparently that EMPTY SPACE looks suspicious. Ooooooh scary! An empty space! It might contain air!
TSA is a joke. If we're going to create another federal entity for the tax dollars to kindle, let's at least do it right. Perusing my dirty drawers to ask if my nail clippers have a file will not save the world.
PeanuckleCRJ
Poodle Wrangler
Well I just got the full anal cavity search at CAK this morning. Damn metal detector is so sensitive even my belt set it off.... usually I can go through with my shoes and belt.
Was kinda funny.. as I was walking out of the "special" area, my crew looks at me and goes "boy..I feel alot safer knowing that you just got searched extra... you might have taken over the airplane."
Was kinda funny.. as I was walking out of the "special" area, my crew looks at me and goes "boy..I feel alot safer knowing that you just got searched extra... you might have taken over the airplane."
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
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Any other XJeters like me? I want an Elite Access Welcome Mat.
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OMG. I had a Nazi supervisor at XJT that would FREAK OUT if you let normal passengers board on that carpet. I actually got a stern talking to for not roping it off after boarding the Elite Access members.
As far airline employees going through security. The whole time I worked in MEM, I went through the security line ZERO times. There's a separate area you have access to, but you need a SIDA badge to get through the gate. I was at SWA in MCO for 2.5 years. The only time I went through the cattle line was when I was coming back from the food court, and that was because I didn't want to go downstairs.
Any other XJeters like me? I want an Elite Access Welcome Mat.
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OMG. I had a Nazi supervisor at XJT that would FREAK OUT if you let normal passengers board on that carpet. I actually got a stern talking to for not roping it off after boarding the Elite Access members.
As far airline employees going through security. The whole time I worked in MEM, I went through the security line ZERO times. There's a separate area you have access to, but you need a SIDA badge to get through the gate. I was at SWA in MCO for 2.5 years. The only time I went through the cattle line was when I was coming back from the food court, and that was because I didn't want to go downstairs.
ERfly
Well-Known Member
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OMG. I had a Nazi supervisor at XJT that would FREAK OUT if you let normal passengers board on that carpet. I actually got a stern talking to for not roping it off after boarding the Elite Access members.
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There are some agents who won't let working crewmembers walk across it. I walk across it everytime.
OMG. I had a Nazi supervisor at XJT that would FREAK OUT if you let normal passengers board on that carpet. I actually got a stern talking to for not roping it off after boarding the Elite Access members.
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There are some agents who won't let working crewmembers walk across it. I walk across it everytime.
ComplexHiAv8r
Well-Known Member
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Well I just got the full anal cavity search at CAK this morning. Damn metal detector is so sensitive even my belt set it off.... usually I can go through with my shoes and belt.
Was kinda funny.. as I was walking out of the "special" area, my crew looks at me and goes "boy..I feel alot safer knowing that you just got searched extra... you might have taken over the airplane."
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Welcome to Akron!!! The low cost airport in OH
Well I just got the full anal cavity search at CAK this morning. Damn metal detector is so sensitive even my belt set it off.... usually I can go through with my shoes and belt.
Was kinda funny.. as I was walking out of the "special" area, my crew looks at me and goes "boy..I feel alot safer knowing that you just got searched extra... you might have taken over the airplane."
[/ QUOTE ]
Welcome to Akron!!! The low cost airport in OH
tonyw
Well-Known Member
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Such as, just off the top of my head, have others continue flight training, become licensed pilots, and ultimately make it into a pilot seat for an airline. Maybe not a US airline, but an airline employee in another country who is able to get into the US. Access to aircraft, more lax screening...etc
That is the only reason I can think that is important that all of us are continually searched.
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And what are you going to find? If that guy wants to turn his airplane into a guided missile, guess what?
ALL THE FREAKING SCREENING IN THE WORLD AIN'T GONNA DO JACK SQUAT.
He's already in the cockpit. He's got the airplane. And short of the other guy in the cockpit killing him, there ain't nothing that's gonna keep him from taking control of that airplane.
You don't think that taking his nail clippers away will do the trick, do you?
Such as, just off the top of my head, have others continue flight training, become licensed pilots, and ultimately make it into a pilot seat for an airline. Maybe not a US airline, but an airline employee in another country who is able to get into the US. Access to aircraft, more lax screening...etc
That is the only reason I can think that is important that all of us are continually searched.
[/ QUOTE ]
And what are you going to find? If that guy wants to turn his airplane into a guided missile, guess what?
ALL THE FREAKING SCREENING IN THE WORLD AIN'T GONNA DO JACK SQUAT.
He's already in the cockpit. He's got the airplane. And short of the other guy in the cockpit killing him, there ain't nothing that's gonna keep him from taking control of that airplane.
You don't think that taking his nail clippers away will do the trick, do you?