No More Lears

SrFnFly227 said:
I feel like the next big news from Bombardier will have to do with the 600 series Challenger. If they kill it, it may signal the end of Bombardier. If they bring a new product to market as a replacement, they may have some life left.
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I don't think Bombardier can rack up 1000 orders total in the next decade. I think they are toast.
 
Pilot Fighter said:
I don't think Bombardier can rack up 1000 orders total in the next decade. I think they are toast.
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The Challenger 300/350 and Global 5000 effectively killed the 600 series. You can put any potential buyer into one of those two planes and outperform the 600. It has more range and cabin space than the 300/350 but worse performance. It's more fuel efficient than the 5000, but doesn't have the range or performance.
 
KLB said:
The Challenger 300/350 and Global 5000 effectively killed the 600 series. You can put any potential buyer into one of those two planes and outperform the 600. It has more range and cabin space than the 300/350 but worse performance. It's more fuel efficient than the 5000, but doesn't have the range or performance.
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There are plenty of people out there who want a larger cabin than the 350, but don't want/need the range of the 5000. Hence they keep selling the 650. Eventually Falcon will replace the 2000/900 and Gulfstream will replace the 280. Bombardier better step up to the plate with a 350/650 replacement or they will be surrendering a huge share of the market.
 
KLB said:
The Challenger 300/350 and Global 5000 effectively killed the 600 series. You can put any potential buyer into one of those two planes and outperform the 600. It has more range and cabin space than the 300/350 but worse performance. It's more fuel efficient than the 5000, but doesn't have the range or performance.
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Let's see. They don't have a VLJ, a light biz, midsize biz, and they sold their interests in the CRJ and the baby Airbus. They don't have any significant military contracts. I'm not sure they will see many more Grey Cups.
 
DeltaAlphaNovember said:
My favorite ride as a passenger was on an AirNet Lear 35 going from PHL-CMH-CLT.
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I just remember hanging onto that pole to keep from falling out of the jumpseat in the climb. When we got to CMH the weather moving through was bad enough the power was knocked out in the hotel, but it sure didn't slow down the Starcheckers. Great experience.
 
SrFnFly227 said:
There are plenty of people out there who want a larger cabin than the 350, but don't want/need the range of the 5000. Hence they keep selling the 650. Eventually Falcon will replace the 2000/900 and Gulfstream will replace the 280. Bombardier better step up to the plate with a 350/650 replacement or they will be surrendering a huge share of the market.
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Pilot Fighter said:
Let's see. They don't have a VLJ, a light biz, midsize biz, and they sold their interests in the CRJ and the baby Airbus. They don't have any significant military contracts. I'm not sure they will see many more Grey Cups.
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Well I completely agree that Bombardier has a "if it ain't broke then don't fix it" mentality until it is completely broken and beyond being able to be fixed. I love the Challenger 300/350. I don't like that Bomb hasn't put auto-throttles and a hud in it to compete with it's competitors. It also can use just a bit more range.

After spending as much money as they did developing the C Series...I just don't see them developing a beefier 350 that is wider and has more range to better gap the Globals. They wouldn't want to step any closer to the 5000/5500 market. I think the same goes for Gulfstream and the gap between the 280 and the 450.
 
KLB said:
Well I completely agree that Bombardier has a "if it ain't broke then don't fix it" mentality until it is completely broken and beyond being able to be fixed. I love the Challenger 300/350. I don't like that Bomb hasn't put auto-throttles and a hud in it to compete with it's competitors. It also can use just a bit more range.

After spending as much money as they did developing the C Series...I just don't see them developing a beefier 350 that is wider and has more range to better gap the Globals. They wouldn't want to step any closer to the 5000/5500 market. I think the same goes for Gulfstream and the gap between the 280 and the 450.
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I think the last 450 was delivered last year, I believed the G500 is the next step up from the 280 now.
 
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knot4u said:
I think the last 450 was delivered last year, I believed the G500 is the next step up from the 280 now.
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Yup....I forgot about that. There is room to upgrade the 280. I'd take a 280 over a Challenger 650 all day any day if I could afford to buy any of them.
 
KLB said:
Yup....I forgot about that. There is room to upgrade the 280. I'd take a 280 over a Challenger 650 all day any day if I could afford to buy any of them.
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I always found the 300/350 to be a fairly MX friendly airplane, except for that weird battery thing where if you turn the wrong one on first it might start the APU (not appreciated in the hangar). I never cared for the large cabin Challengers.
 
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Bombardier just announced the Challenger 3500. From the little information I have seen so far, it's a 350 with auto throttles and cabin enhancements. They are done as a company if they really feel like this is innovating.
 
SrFnFly227 said:
Bombardier just announced the Challenger 3500. From the little information I have seen so far, it's a 350 with auto throttles and cabin enhancements. They are done as a company if they really feel like this is innovating.
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You say this, but the line to get a new Challenger is over a year long a the moment. It also has added two hundred miles of range.

No other manufacturer has come out with a new aircraft in the category that is outselling them right now. I'd like to see a little more feature wise. But they are owning the market with their current product.
 
SrFnFly227 said:
Bombardier just announced the Challenger 3500. From the little information I have seen so far, it's a 350 with auto throttles and cabin enhancements. They are done as a company if they really feel like this is innovating.
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If I recall correctly, production is somewhere near number 900 or more right now. It is a very popular machine with a large following among private owners and charter operators. At this moment FlightAware is tracking more than 20 of them over the US and a couple across the pond.

Sure, everyone wants more range, more speed, more cargo capacity, lower maintenance costs… Some of those come at too high of a cost. Autothrottles will satisfy the pilots, and cabin enhancements will satisfy the passengers.
 
dustoff17 said:
If Embraer gets into this cabin size and range, they will rule the market.
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The Praeter is there already. It's even much cheaper than the 350. It's stuffed with features and technology from the front to the back. It actually beats the 350 in just about every category. It just isn't selling as well as the Challenger is selling. I think it comes down to reliability and the Challenger 350 being a known commodity.
 
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