No Jumpseat on diversion flights - Delta

surreal1221

surreal1221

Well-Known Member
Warning: If you are a commuting pilot desiring to get to a destination, according to the not so friendly agents here in Columbia, SC, Delta does not allow them to list crewmember(s) for the jumpseat.

Scenario example:

Delta 737 and a Delta 757 divert to Columbia because they were unable to get into Atlanta. Both planes have roughly 20-25 passengers deplane. Pilot attempting to commute to Atlanta approaches gate agent to inquire about listing on the Jumpseat. Agent immediately shuts pilot down and tells him "I'm not allowed." Pilot then contacts his company's CP to inquire and seek assistance in getting around what appears to be an unhelpful agent. CP successfully contacts Delta OCC sector manager and receives a "Yes, the pilot is able to Jumpseat." CP contacts pilot again and informs him that according to Delta managers there are no restrictions inhibiting a Delta plane that executed a diversion from taking on a jumpseater, if the Jumpseat is available. Shortly afterwards the 737 Captain comes up to the gate house. Pilot inquires with Captain. Captain inquires with agent and receives a similar terse statement from gate agent. Captain attempts to rationalize with agent. Agent provides a more colorful explanation as to why he is unable to list pilot for jumpseat. Captain approaches pilot and apologizes immensely for being unable to take pilot to Atlanta and confesses that "If he says I can't, then I suppose I can't. Good luck and I'm sorry."

So...for our Delta boys here: Are you guys aware of any policy restricting you guys as Captains from accepting a jumpseater on the second sequence of a flight from the diversion airport?

ALPA Jumpseat chairman has already been notified but I do not expect much to come from it. This pilot strongly feels that Columbia, SC agents are extremely unwilling to work with commuting crewmembers when it requires basic outside of the box thinking.
 
surreal1221 said:
Warning: If you are a commuting pilot desiring to get to a destination, according to the not so friendly agents here in Columbia, SC, Delta does not allow them to list crewmember(s) for the jumpseat.

Scenario example:

Delta 737 and a Delta 757 divert to Columbia because they were unable to get into Atlanta. Both planes have roughly 20-25 passengers deplane. Pilot attempting to commute to Atlanta approaches gate agent to inquire about listing on the Jumpseat. Agent immediately shuts pilot down and tells him "I'm not allowed." Pilot then contacts his company's CP to inquire and seek assistance in getting around what appears to be an unhelpful agent. CP successfully contacts Delta OCC sector manager and receives a "Yes, the pilot is able to Jumpseat." CP contacts pilot again and informs him that according to Delta managers there are no restrictions inhibiting a Delta plane that executed a diversion from taking on a jumpseater, if the Jumpseat is available. Shortly afterwards the 737 Captain comes up to the gate house. Pilot inquires with Captain. Captain inquires with agent and receives a similar terse statement from gate agent. Captain attempts to rationalize with agent. Agent provides a more colorful explanation as to why he is unable to list pilot for jumpseat. Captain approaches pilot and apologizes immensely for being unable to take pilot to Atlanta and confesses that "If he says I can't, then I suppose I can't. Good luck and I'm sorry."

So...for our Delta boys here: Are you guys aware of any policy restricting you guys as Captains from accepting a jumpseater on the second sequence of a flight from the diversion airport?

ALPA Jumpseat chairman has already been notified but I do not expect much to come from it. This pilot strongly feels that Columbia, SC agents are extremely unwilling to work with commuting crewmembers when it requires basic outside of the box thinking.
Click to expand...

Actually jumpseat coordinator should be able to help with this. ALPA is very protective of the jumpseat.
Second, while too late now in the future ask the captain to file an IOR, or their company's equivalent. FOM's normally list jumpseat policies and these are FAA approved items. So if the gate agent was winging it they were not following an FAA approved document.
 
Nah, we have ALPA volunteers 24/7 right there in the OCC along with crew scheduling, dispatch and ATC rep and meteoreology.
 
Derg said:
Yeah, that's not correct. Send a note to the jumpseat coordinator. The captain should have contacted the OCC duty pilot.
Click to expand...

Thanks @Derg. I'll actually follow up with my CP to be honest. I have seen previous Jumpseat issues with our carrier go unresolved for an extremely extensive period of time that I have very little remaining faith in the ALPA process.

We have ran into the "I can't list you for the Jumpseat without you activating your Travel benefits" for over seven years. If Delta IT doesn't allow agents the flexibility to make the most very basic of Jumpseat listing there isn't much my ALPA Jumpseat Chairman is going to be able to do. Unless there is a clear work around for the above scenario and the scenario highlighted in the original post.

There are additional issues stemming from at least two Columbia, SC agents attitudes today that will also be addressed. Those that know me know I am pretty level headed and a professional when commuting, but the statements I heard today were an absolute embarrassment to the Delta brand that someone else needs to be made aware of.

Columbia is a fairly heavy commuter base for us and I was appalled by the treatment I received today, even when it came to me getting the Jumpseat on my own carrier's metal. The attitudes and statements made to me today were the worst I have heard in the five years I have been commuting in and out of there. Absolutely no exaggeration.

Thanks for the information.
 
surreal1221 said:
We have ran into the "I can't list you for the Jumpseat without you activating your Travel benefits" for over seven years. If Delta IT doesn't allow agents the flexibility to make the most very basic of Jumpseat listing there isn't much my ALPA Jumpseat Chairman is going to be able to do. Unless there is a clear work around for the above scenario and the scenario highlighted in the original post.
Click to expand...

It's not difficult, even in that technological relic that is DLTerm. There are some issues that can occur depending on how the diversion is setup, but a short phone call to OCC and a second "dummy" listing is about all the extra work required.

Scenario 1:
Diversion flight is rebuilt as AAA-CCC-BBB. Agent in CCC simply does a PJS* for the flight, follows the normal process, and if it's available out spits boarding passes for the jumpseat. Anytime there's an expectation that passengers will have to be re accommodated this is what happens and basically makes the CCC-BBB portion no different than any other flight (though e-ticket reissues are prone to automation failure and usuall require manual processing this isn't an issue for JS listings).

Scenario 2:
Diversion flight is a fuel stop and doesn't get rebuilt and so while FLIFO will show AAA-CCC-BBB, no booking segment for CCC-BBB is created. In order to list a jump seater CCC-BBB, the listing must be created as AAA-BBB. This requires an agent to have a login for that city. Few agent have the ability to login for multiple cities and even fewer have the ability to change their location while signed in. To list a jump seater CCC-BBB, then agent simply has to call OCC where any of several of the folks mentioned above have the ability to create and check in the jump seater. The only problem is the gate agent cannot see the CASS image. That's where taking 10 seconds to create a "dummy" listing for another flight allows the agent to do the proper ID verification. From past experience as a gate agent the whole phone call/check in process takes less than 5 minutes and in the case of a high volume IROP situation those 5 minutes of passengers not screaming at me were usually a welcome break.
 
n156499000 said:
It's not difficult, even in that technological relic that is DLTerm. There are some issues that can occur depending on how the diversion is setup, but a short phone call to OCC and a second "dummy" listing is about all the extra work required.

Scenario 1:
Diversion flight is rebuilt as AAA-CCC-BBB. Agent in CCC simply does a PJS* for the flight, follows the normal process, and if it's available out spits boarding passes for the jumpseat. Anytime there's an expectation that passengers will have to be re accommodated this is what happens and basically makes the CCC-BBB portion no different than any other flight (though e-ticket reissues are prone to automation failure and usuall require manual processing this isn't an issue for JS listings).

Scenario 2:
Diversion flight is a fuel stop and doesn't get rebuilt and so while FLIFO will show AAA-CCC-BBB, no booking segment for CCC-BBB is created. In order to list a jump seater CCC-BBB, the listing must be created as AAA-BBB. This requires an agent to have a login for that city. Few agent have the ability to login for multiple cities and even fewer have the ability to change their location while signed in. To list a jump seater CCC-BBB, then agent simply has to call OCC where any of several of the folks mentioned above have the ability to create and check in the jump seater. The only problem is the gate agent cannot see the CASS image. That's where taking 10 seconds to create a "dummy" listing for another flight allows the agent to do the proper ID verification. From past experience as a gate agent the whole phone call/check in process takes less than 5 minutes and in the case of a high volume IROP situation those 5 minutes of passengers not screaming at me were usually a welcome break.
Click to expand...

Thank you for these details. More ammunition. It is quite clear to me that they just did not want to make the impression of a person boarding a flight while revenue folks were looking. The lack of spine some agents have is absolutely disappointing. #OneTeam.

My days of taking the jumpseat to get Delta retirees or Delta employees on my equipment is pretty much done for a fairly long time because of this incident. I have always tried to make sure maximum number of non-revers can get on if I can take my equipment's jumpseat, which I would like to think is fairly common, but after these representatives of Delta's poor work ethic, piss-poor attitude, those days are done for a bit.
 
Weak sauce on the Captain's part. Guys like that make the continued whittling of Captain's Authority even easier. Disappointing.
 
surreal1221 said:
Thank you for these details. More ammunition. It is quite clear to me that they just did not want to make the impression of a person boarding a flight while revenue folks were looking. The lack of spine some agents have is absolutely disappointing. #OneTeam.

My days of taking the jumpseat to get Delta retirees or Delta employees on my equipment is pretty much done for a fairly long time because of this incident. I have always tried to make sure maximum number of non-revers can get on if I can take my equipment's jumpseat, which I would like to think is fairly common, but after these representatives of Delta's poor work ethic, piss-poor attitude, those days are done for a bit.
Click to expand...

Are the agents in CAE actual Delta employees or DGS employees? Cause DGS is just the regional equivalent for ACS. You get what you pay for.
 
CAE is an above wing Delta station. To be best of my knowledge, it's always been. Below wing is some sort of contracted service, not sure if it is DGS though.
 
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