No gate, ramp closed, tornado warning, full airplane, now what?

[bLizZuE]

Recently completed an Orlando turn that included a little extra R-n-R in Grand Rapids.

KGRR 302151Z 26048G70KT 3/4SM R26L/P6000FT +TSRA BR SQ SCT022CB BKN032 OVC055 17/15 A2953 RMK AO2 PK WND 26070/2150 WSHFT 2134 RAB36 TSB36 PRESRR FRQ LTGICCC ALQDS TS OHD MOV NE P0015 $

Pretty solid line of storms going over ORD at the time and we got holding. Had to move holding fixes for the storms and eventually decided it was time to just get on the ground. There was a chance for us to land, get gas, and get back in the air and go north of the storms and get in to ORD just fine. Several issues came up while on the ground and we were unable to beat the weather and ended up having to wait out the storm on the ramp. We had a write-up enroute, the ACARS failed during the diversion, apparently there is an issue with our new 321 neos that require the door to be opened for it to sequence the ATSU to the next flight, and the weather caused two other issues come up that I had to have MX help me reset.

While I was on the phone with MX, the weather and wind really started to pick up and the airplane was starting to get confused as to whether or not it was on the ground. Started getting master warnings like DUAL ENGINE FAIL and STALL with the parking brake set. Good times.

This is when my phone did that really loud TORNADO WARNING sound and apparently most of the passengers had the same thing. So here we are, on the ramp, hard stand, no gate, ramp is closed, (Later I learned that ATC had evacuated the tower), and the flight attendant calls and says we need to say something to the passengers because they are freaking out. Understandably.

I ended up making a PA while looking at the warning on my phone, comparing the radar with where we were, it seemed to me that we were past the main threat of the tornados.

But what if we weren't?
What's the best course of action?
Can you see the tornado coming?
Do you move the airplane?
Do you try to evacuate to get the passengers into the terminal?

 

[Bob Ridpath]

Recently completed an Orlando turn that included a little extra R-n-R in Grand Rapids.

View attachment 82997View attachment 82999

KGRR 302151Z 26048G70KT 3/4SM R26L/P6000FT +TSRA BR SQ SCT022CB BKN032 OVC055 17/15 A2953 RMK AO2 PK WND 26070/2150 WSHFT 2134 RAB36 TSB36 PRESRR FRQ LTGICCC ALQDS TS OHD MOV NE P0015 $

Pretty solid line of storms going over ORD at the time and we got holding. Had to move holding fixes for the storms and eventually decided it was time to just get on the ground. There was a chance for us to land, get gas, and get back in the air and go north of the storms and get in to ORD just fine. Several issues came up while on the ground and we were unable to beat the weather and ended up having to wait out the storm on the ramp. We had a write-up enroute, the ACARS failed during the diversion, apparently there is an issue with our new 321 neos that require the door to be opened for it to sequence the ATSU to the next flight, and the weather caused two other issues come up that I had to have MX help me reset.

While I was on the phone with MX, the weather and wind really started to pick up and the airplane was starting to get confused as to whether or not it was on the ground. Started getting master warnings like DUAL ENGINE FAIL and STALL with the parking brake set. Good times.

This is when my phone did that really loud TORNADO WARNING sound and apparently most of the passengers had the same thing. So here we are, on the ramp, hard stand, no gate, ramp is closed, (Later I learned that ATC had evacuated the tower), and the flight attendant calls and says we need to say something to the passengers because they are freaking out. Understandably.

I ended up making a PA while looking at the warning on my phone, comparing the radar with where we were, it seemed to me that we were past the main threat of the tornados.

But what if we weren't?
What's the best course of action?
Can you see the tornado coming?
Do you move the airplane?
Do you try to evacuate to get the passengers into the terminal?

Damn, Hobson's choice, at best.

 

[ppragman]

Recently completed an Orlando turn that included a little extra R-n-R in Grand Rapids.

View attachment 82997View attachment 82999

KGRR 302151Z 26048G70KT 3/4SM R26L/P6000FT +TSRA BR SQ SCT022CB BKN032 OVC055 17/15 A2953 RMK AO2 PK WND 26070/2150 WSHFT 2134 RAB36 TSB36 PRESRR FRQ LTGICCC ALQDS TS OHD MOV NE P0015 $

Pretty solid line of storms going over ORD at the time and we got holding. Had to move holding fixes for the storms and eventually decided it was time to just get on the ground. There was a chance for us to land, get gas, and get back in the air and go north of the storms and get in to ORD just fine. Several issues came up while on the ground and we were unable to beat the weather and ended up having to wait out the storm on the ramp. We had a write-up enroute, the ACARS failed during the diversion, apparently there is an issue with our new 321 neos that require the door to be opened for it to sequence the ATSU to the next flight, and the weather caused two other issues come up that I had to have MX help me reset.

While I was on the phone with MX, the weather and wind really started to pick up and the airplane was starting to get confused as to whether or not it was on the ground. Started getting master warnings like DUAL ENGINE FAIL and STALL with the parking brake set. Good times.

This is when my phone did that really loud TORNADO WARNING sound and apparently most of the passengers had the same thing. So here we are, on the ramp, hard stand, no gate, ramp is closed, (Later I learned that ATC had evacuated the tower), and the flight attendant calls and says we need to say something to the passengers because they are freaking out. Understandably.

I ended up making a PA while looking at the warning on my phone, comparing the radar with where we were, it seemed to me that we were past the main threat of the tornados.

But what if we weren't?
What's the best course of action?
Can you see the tornado coming?
Do you move the airplane?
Do you try to evacuate to get the passengers into the terminal?

Man, ok... so that would be freaking harrowing. I guess it depends on how much time you have. If you can't be sure that you could get everyone inside a stronger shelter on the surface somewhere, I'd probably keep everyone onboard?

My gut instinct is this. If you're in a "big" airplane, the best bet would probably be to stay in the airplane for shelter - having the pax scattered all over the ramp in a tornado sounds like a sure way to get someone killed. Maybe tell everyone to brace and turn away from windows? I'm not a big airplane person at all, but I would say, turn into the wind, make sure all the drag devices are out that you can get out, have everyone brace, and stay at the controls because you may try to fly whether you want to or not...

What a • sandwich lol. Probably depending how much time you have moving the airplane could be a really good idea. Like if you're going to get hit by a tornado you may be screwed no matter what you do, but if you can put some big heavy and anchored down mechanical things between yourself and the wind it might break up the flow a little bit? Or it might venturi between two hangers and suddenly you are flying lol. What does that thing stall at clean?

I guess it depends on where this is happening too, if there's actually an area where you could seek shelter, like maybe there's a ditch that people can get in, but how many people are on the flight? Can you fit everyone?

What a WILD scenario that I had never considered before. Thanks.

 

[derg]

Ooooo!
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM…

Lemme think about this for a bit.

 

[bp]

this ones been on my mind since the omaha tornado last year that ripped across the field. in your scenario without stairs or jet bridge, that leaves you with commanding evac which might leave people with even less shelter if you call it too late, slides blowing around in 70kt winds might also kill someone

if it’s light out you may be able to see it coming and maneuver a bit if it’s small enough. my thought was to get engines turning and spoilers up, elevator and stab full nose down(?) hopefully into the wind, and positioned somewhere where you have options on directions to taxi. if the field is closed a runway intersection might be the best spot for maneuvering and high speed taxi with ample asphalt and hopefully less debris than crap getting picked up and thrown across the ramp. kind of depends on airport layout and relative bearing to the weather. interested to hear others ideas.

edit: if it does look like it’s going to hit and you’re stuck, maybe worth getting luggage out of bins to place over windows? like a stack you build for a certain other scenario in flight. the more junk you can put between people and high speed debris the better, I’d think

 

[arkflyr]

But what if we weren't?
What's the best course of action?
Can you see the tornado coming?
Do you move the airplane?
Do you try to evacuate to get the passengers into the terminal?

Had something similar happen in DSM when I was a FO. We ended up parking the airplane in the wind and waiting it out.

For your questions, regarding a no kidding tornado on the field in your situation there isn't much more you can do. I wouldn't want to try to deplane or evacuate, as deplaning would endanger ground personnel and evacuating would take time, risk injury, and there isn't a guarantee of shelter once outside depending on where you are parked.

As an aside growing up in tornado alley I have spent a lot of time looking at sky during tornado warnings when we should have been in the basement and I was 22 years old when I finally saw one, it was sunny where I was and I was at MKC airport at work battening down the place for the coming storm. The tornado went north of the airport and was never a real threat to us so as to the being able to see it coming is kind of moot, treat a warning as if one is coming and take precautions.

The only other thing I could think of would be if you know you are going to be close or take a direct hit from one while in the airplane would be to make sure it is trimmed nose down, and maybe extend the speed brake just to help keep it from getting picked up off the ground. If you are that close to one chances are it is going to get beat up with debris or hail so you aren't going anywhere once it is over. Plus the airport is going to be smoked also so there will be that to deal with once it passes.

 

[SteveC]

Recently completed an Orlando turn that included a little extra R-n-R in Grand Rapids.

View attachment 82997View attachment 82999

KGRR 302151Z 26048G70KT 3/4SM R26L/P6000FT +TSRA BR SQ SCT022CB BKN032 OVC055 17/15 A2953 RMK AO2 PK WND 26070/2150 WSHFT 2134 RAB36 TSB36 PRESRR FRQ LTGICCC ALQDS TS OHD MOV NE P0015 $

Pretty solid line of storms going over ORD at the time and we got holding. Had to move holding fixes for the storms and eventually decided it was time to just get on the ground. There was a chance for us to land, get gas, and get back in the air and go north of the storms and get in to ORD just fine. Several issues came up while on the ground and we were unable to beat the weather and ended up having to wait out the storm on the ramp. We had a write-up enroute, the ACARS failed during the diversion, apparently there is an issue with our new 321 neos that require the door to be opened for it to sequence the ATSU to the next flight, and the weather caused two other issues come up that I had to have MX help me reset.

While I was on the phone with MX, the weather and wind really started to pick up and the airplane was starting to get confused as to whether or not it was on the ground. Started getting master warnings like DUAL ENGINE FAIL and STALL with the parking brake set. Good times.

This is when my phone did that really loud TORNADO WARNING sound and apparently most of the passengers had the same thing. So here we are, on the ramp, hard stand, no gate, ramp is closed, (Later I learned that ATC had evacuated the tower), and the flight attendant calls and says we need to say something to the passengers because they are freaking out. Understandably.

I ended up making a PA while looking at the warning on my phone, comparing the radar with where we were, it seemed to me that we were past the main threat of the tornados.

But what if we weren't?
What's the best course of action?
Can you see the tornado coming?
Do you move the airplane?
Do you try to evacuate to get the passengers into the terminal?

I was sitting at home (in Grand Rapids) watching some really good local weather people dissect that storm in detail, minute by minute, and thinking about some of the nasty stuff being described in and around the airport, and what was happening there in response! Hard to imagine you sitting there with fingers crossed…glad you all were ok.

That line moved fast! I’m not just talking about wind speeds, but the line itself was hauling ass through the whole area. Incredible to see how fast it was on us, then gone. It was so fast moving I don’t see there being any opportunity to physically move an airplane on the ground in response to visual clues from the cockpit