New Program


New Member
As a matter of fact, you are right. Generally after a student completes 800 hour of dual given at CAA, they are released for their interview. Lately, within a week of the interview, they are in class. What that amounts to is that in about a month’s time from the day they finish their 800 hours Dual-Given, they are in class. Honestly, would you really want to stick around as a Flight Instructor when you could be a FO instead?

“Don’t believe me on those numbers…go ask them.”
Airline Qualifications Dept. 1-888-886-1104


New Member

Your Words:
"Another opinion on ATA's program:
IF... the time building to 1500 TT was all X-country in IMC or simulated IMC (hood) and had some kind of LOFT program tied to it, it would not be that bad (other than flying the 152). Without a LOFT program tied to it with set procedures and CRM, it is worthless. Two guy's punching holes in the sky without an objective is a waste of money. The safety pilot thing is another issue."

My response:
Time building hours are 1100, under the hood, and the rest of the hours, to qualify for the ATP-multi-engine certificate, will be logged during flight training in AirStages I & II.

Your words:
"Hey, didn't 20 or so of ATA's instructors pack up and come over to Flight Safety a year ago looking for a job? Seems like I heard that somewhere. Hmmm."

My response:
Never happened. Just another rumor that is not backed up with any valid facts.

Your words:
"The safety pilot thing is another issue."

My response:
It is in the FAR's and the airlines accept it. The same could be said of a CFI that logs PIC time after a student has a Private Certificate. It's in the FAR's.

Both programs give excellent flight training. You have your ideas of what makes a program valuable, and I have mine.


Well-Known Member
I guess the question I have is, does the time building portion of the program have LOFT/CRM attached to the sylabus? I am talking about a pilot fly/pilot no fly program using line operation procedures specific to say, Skywest for instance. If you are simply sending two people on basic IFR x-countries of their choice without practicing line procedures it is ALMOST pointless. So does the program incorporate line procedures? Inquiring minds want to know. Flight Safety has a great line program attached to their ASA training. Of course, as you know Flight Safety is known best for setting the standards for everyone else to follow. ILS


New Member
If times were good, this program might be an option, but the bottom line is this is not good time. It is no different than those who pay to fly SIC for Part 135 ops that can fly single pilot with an auto pilot authorization. Sure you sat there and put the gear up and down, and it is recognized by the FAR's, but so what? A few years ago when ConEX was hiring CFI's with 600 hrs. this might have gotten you a job, now I am not convinced. Even then the people I knew who were hired were asked if they were currently instructing in a Multi and had several hundred hours of Multi time.

When you are a CFI and log PIC with a rated student it is different than being a safety pilot. You are being paid as a commercial pilot. You are also providing instruction for a student and are in operational control of the aircraft. Many times you will be flying with instrument students who are logging PIC, but who are not really qualified to be acting PIC of the aircraft (on an IFR flight plan when they have no instrument rating, etc). There are alot of loop holes to log time, but the airlines do not rate all time equally. It is possible to have a CFI in the back seat of a plane and two students in the front and have all 3 log PIC. Is this legal, yes it is. If you do not believe me read the FAR's (CFI has operational control, one student under the hood, one as safety pilot). Is this time worth anything? I do not think so. I think you will be paying alot for a certificate that you are not really qualified to have, and you will have a hard time getting hired anywhere. And you will not have your CFI to fall back on.

Safety pilot time can be a legitimate way to build several hundred hours of CC time, or to pad your Multi, but to have half of your total time be safety pilot is not very wise, in my opinion. As other posters have said, who would you hire? The CFI who was being paid for their time and who was really the PIC, or someone who spent half their time looking out the window making sure the airplane didn't hit anything. The CFI will also have a much better understanding of the FAR's, aerodynamics, etc. and will probably do better in an airline interview as well. You really have to have an understanding of a subject to teach it well.

If you are dying to get your ATP in a hurry without being a CFI, it cost about $30 an hour to operate a 150/152. Go buy one and fly it.


New Member
If you really want to "build time" cheaply I suggest a packet of BIC ballpoints. They retail for about $2 and one pack should be sufficient to put 1500 hours in your logbook. Building quality expierence is going to take a little more effort....

-Ref. Avbug- sorry for stealing your material.


Well-Known Member
Generally after a student completes 800 hour of dual given at CAA, they are released for their interview. Lately, within a week of the interview, they are in class.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yankee One, I'm not sure what your affiliation is with Comair but this info. is very deceitful to those who are trying to succeed in this wacky industry. "Released for their inverview" great word-smithing for "Few airlines are hiring now, we create more cfi's than anyone therefore you're competing with A LOT of people for VERY FEW spots and the majority of you who don't make it to class are on the street" I've heard the 97% quote from 2000 data... and that Comair is airlined owned and and and...

If you're a student I wish you luck. If you're not I beg potential students to research, talk to people, read between the lines, and go see the schools.


Well-Known Member
I think we need some avbug around here sometimes...I don't always agree with that guy, but I certainly respect him.