New Info On Sierra
- Thread starter Seven
- Start date
flyguy
Well-Known Member
There were about 9 old w&b sheets. Not one of them was stamped as superceded. Also in addition to the w&b, the compas deviation card was not present, and the carb heat when applied did not produce a drop in RPM. I squawked the plane and everything was deferred to the next inspection.
Now, in all honesty this was an isolated event and I have rented from them a few other times and the aircraft were to the best of my knowlege airworthy. But this type of thing will never happen at sierra because the FAA is constantly on our ass about little things like this. And we would certainly never defer inop carb heat.
Now, in all honesty this was an isolated event and I have rented from them a few other times and the aircraft were to the best of my knowlege airworthy. But this type of thing will never happen at sierra because the FAA is constantly on our ass about little things like this. And we would certainly never defer inop carb heat.
SFLAX
Well-Known Member
To new prices I think the problem most flight schools have put off for a while, fuel has gone up. Also lets compare apples to apples, look at FSI or DCA for correct pricing, and then we will see whom is cheaper. Also the situation with the chief dispatcher is simple, this would be the the forth time he has been highered and fired by Sierra ( first time by KS), he does not have a hard job, no real responsibilties so when he walked out b/c his the owner said or did something (which I do not know what) he left. And came back the next day, he was then dismissed. So he made the choice to leave, by his actions. As for the school they have been doing fine, I have worked there for a few months as an instructor and I am pleased with my students and support of the new owners. I just a pay raise so that is a plus. Then planes have been ordered and and they will be starting to be develiered in May. So Sierra should be the first school with them. Plus who cares about the look of a plane, these are not women, they need to run and they do, plus GPS is a crutch for pilots. Learn the old ways then advance to GPS.
flyguy
Well-Known Member
We might be the first with the glass 172s but I think I remember reading in either Flying of Flight Training magazine, that some university program, I think UND but could be wrong and/or another academy, I think ATP, maybe American Flyers, but again could be wrong, just got the glass Diamond Stars. I know its somebody, just can't remember exactly who, anyway we aren't the first to get glass. Also I origionally heard March, then April, now May, and we're still waiting on the 737 sim, so I'll believe it when I see it. Although I also said that about the SPs last year, so I guess we'll see. Also once we get them we are becomming a Cesna Pilot center. Its been explained to me, but I don't understand exactly what that means so if anyone can explain I'm all ears, but from my understanding we will save a buttload of $$ on maintainence.
Flight_Watch
New Member
[ QUOTE ]
Well why not compare apples to apples? We aren't comparing the cost of living out here to the cost of living in FL so lets take a look at a local FBO.
FBO's C-172 R model - $97/hr
Sierra's C-172 R model - $101/hr
Damn! Are we really paying $4 hr. more? That's gonna break me for sure!
[/ QUOTE ]
Not sure I understand your comment about the cost of living. California living cost are more than Florida. Therefore, I would expect Sierra to cost a little more.
In my original post I was just interested to hear how the cost of flying in California compares to the cost of flying elsewhere in the country. I am sure Sierra’s prices are similar to other FBOs in the area because they are all paying similar taxes, rent, insurance, etc.
Anyone else have per hour prices for Arizona or Florida flight schools?
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By the way I agree, Sierra will definitely not be the first school with glass trainers. Not that I really care at this point but here is one school with them already: http://www.aopa.org/members/ftmag/article.cfm?article=5190
---
What is a Cessna Pilot Center you ask? http://se.cessna.com/bacpc/why_become.chtml
Specifically, the CPC Program offers flight schools the only integrated flight-training system in existence (the Cessna Computer-Based Instruction (CBI) Program), access to a variety of CPC-exclusive programs, and free instructional Seminars to help operate your business more efficiently and profitably.
The Cessna CBI Program is the only integrated flight-training system in existence. This means that the flight labs (computer-based portion) and the flight lessons are paired so that students’ retention rates are as high as possible. Students using the Cessna CBI are completely prepared for their flight lessons---they have seen and studied the material before they get to the airplane and therefore they perform better in the airplane. With higher retention rates, students learn faster which leads to lower course completion times and lower dropout rates - In fact, research shows that Cessna Private Pilot CBI students complete their training in approximately 30% fewer hours than the national average, saving both time and money.
As a member of the CPC network, you have access to programs including insurance, flight-training financing, and website development. Because of the size of the CPC network, members have access to advantages and benefits that flight schools cannot gain alone. At CPC, we call this the “Value-Added Program” because these programs add value to your membership in the CPC network.
Approximately three times each year, the CPC Division hosts CPC Seminars. The purpose of these Seminars is to help the CPCs improve their operations and profitability. The Seminars are free, and are open to current CPCs and to flight schools interested in becoming a CPC. Typical topics covered at the Seminars are fleet modernization, risk management, marketing ideas and resources for your CPC, how to use the CBI and CMM effectively, and flight school accounting. Presenters at the Seminars often include representatives from other organizations in the aviation industry and from organizations involved in specific CPC Programs.
I am sure others have more info on the benefits of CPC.
Well why not compare apples to apples? We aren't comparing the cost of living out here to the cost of living in FL so lets take a look at a local FBO.
FBO's C-172 R model - $97/hr
Sierra's C-172 R model - $101/hr
[/ QUOTE ]
Not sure I understand your comment about the cost of living. California living cost are more than Florida. Therefore, I would expect Sierra to cost a little more.
In my original post I was just interested to hear how the cost of flying in California compares to the cost of flying elsewhere in the country. I am sure Sierra’s prices are similar to other FBOs in the area because they are all paying similar taxes, rent, insurance, etc.
Anyone else have per hour prices for Arizona or Florida flight schools?
------
By the way I agree, Sierra will definitely not be the first school with glass trainers. Not that I really care at this point but here is one school with them already: http://www.aopa.org/members/ftmag/article.cfm?article=5190
---
What is a Cessna Pilot Center you ask? http://se.cessna.com/bacpc/why_become.chtml
Specifically, the CPC Program offers flight schools the only integrated flight-training system in existence (the Cessna Computer-Based Instruction (CBI) Program), access to a variety of CPC-exclusive programs, and free instructional Seminars to help operate your business more efficiently and profitably.
The Cessna CBI Program is the only integrated flight-training system in existence. This means that the flight labs (computer-based portion) and the flight lessons are paired so that students’ retention rates are as high as possible. Students using the Cessna CBI are completely prepared for their flight lessons---they have seen and studied the material before they get to the airplane and therefore they perform better in the airplane. With higher retention rates, students learn faster which leads to lower course completion times and lower dropout rates - In fact, research shows that Cessna Private Pilot CBI students complete their training in approximately 30% fewer hours than the national average, saving both time and money.
As a member of the CPC network, you have access to programs including insurance, flight-training financing, and website development. Because of the size of the CPC network, members have access to advantages and benefits that flight schools cannot gain alone. At CPC, we call this the “Value-Added Program” because these programs add value to your membership in the CPC network.
Approximately three times each year, the CPC Division hosts CPC Seminars. The purpose of these Seminars is to help the CPCs improve their operations and profitability. The Seminars are free, and are open to current CPCs and to flight schools interested in becoming a CPC. Typical topics covered at the Seminars are fleet modernization, risk management, marketing ideas and resources for your CPC, how to use the CBI and CMM effectively, and flight school accounting. Presenters at the Seminars often include representatives from other organizations in the aviation industry and from organizations involved in specific CPC Programs.
I am sure others have more info on the benefits of CPC.
flyguy
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Not sure I understand your comment about the cost of living. California living cost are more than Florida. Therefore, I would expect Sierra to cost a little more.
In my original post I was just interested to hear how the cost of flying in California compares to the cost of flying elsewhere in the country. I am sure Sierra’s prices are similar to other FBOs in the area because they are all paying similar taxes, rent, insurance, etc.
[/ QUOTE ]
That was kind of my point. The other school's prices that were quoted are located in other parts of the country, but Mr DE727 was trying to infer that the reason Sierra's prices are higher is because we have bulls*!t advertising when in fact its becasue it is more expensive to operate aircraft out here. That's why I quoted a local FBO's prices for comparison.
Thanks for the info on Cessna Pilot Center. I asked Josh a little more about it today and I guess it means we have to change our syllabus to abide by the standars set forth by the Cessna Pilot Center agreement. This should not be a problem at all because our syllabus is already approved, it will only require an revision to the already approved syllabus and we won't have to go through the red tape that would be required if we were applying for a brand new part 141 syllabus. Becomming a Cessna Pilot Center is the only way a flight school can get the new glass 172s. What Cessna gets out of it is the sale of $2 million worth of new 172s, what we get out of it is 5 years of maintainence and repairs paid for by Cessna. We hope to turn them over every 5 years so we'd never have to pay for it. What does this mean to us students? No more inop ADF, DME, GPS, Autopilot, you know the stuff that once it goes down never gets fixed because its not needed but nice to have. Also we'll be doing progressive inspections so instead of a plane going down for 2-3 days for a 100hr, it will only be down for a half a day for a 50 hr, increasing aircraft availability.
As far as twins go though, I guess we're back to the drawing board. We were thinking of Diamond Twin Stars, but we abandoned that idea and we don't know what we want to do so we'll stick with the Duchesses in the mean time. Which I suppose is fine with me, because in a couple weeks I'll be done with twins until I go for my MEI.
Not sure I understand your comment about the cost of living. California living cost are more than Florida. Therefore, I would expect Sierra to cost a little more.
In my original post I was just interested to hear how the cost of flying in California compares to the cost of flying elsewhere in the country. I am sure Sierra’s prices are similar to other FBOs in the area because they are all paying similar taxes, rent, insurance, etc.
[/ QUOTE ]
That was kind of my point. The other school's prices that were quoted are located in other parts of the country, but Mr DE727 was trying to infer that the reason Sierra's prices are higher is because we have bulls*!t advertising when in fact its becasue it is more expensive to operate aircraft out here. That's why I quoted a local FBO's prices for comparison.
Thanks for the info on Cessna Pilot Center. I asked Josh a little more about it today and I guess it means we have to change our syllabus to abide by the standars set forth by the Cessna Pilot Center agreement. This should not be a problem at all because our syllabus is already approved, it will only require an revision to the already approved syllabus and we won't have to go through the red tape that would be required if we were applying for a brand new part 141 syllabus. Becomming a Cessna Pilot Center is the only way a flight school can get the new glass 172s. What Cessna gets out of it is the sale of $2 million worth of new 172s, what we get out of it is 5 years of maintainence and repairs paid for by Cessna. We hope to turn them over every 5 years so we'd never have to pay for it. What does this mean to us students? No more inop ADF, DME, GPS, Autopilot, you know the stuff that once it goes down never gets fixed because its not needed but nice to have. Also we'll be doing progressive inspections so instead of a plane going down for 2-3 days for a 100hr, it will only be down for a half a day for a 50 hr, increasing aircraft availability.
As far as twins go though, I guess we're back to the drawing board. We were thinking of Diamond Twin Stars, but we abandoned that idea and we don't know what we want to do so we'll stick with the Duchesses in the mean time. Which I suppose is fine with me, because in a couple weeks I'll be done with twins until I go for my MEI.
Flight_Watch
New Member
Upgrading to the Cessna Pilot Center sounds like a good move. It will be great to have less planes IFR inop for a broken adfs and so on.
For all those prospective students looking at Sierra, here is a photo of our new facilities in Livermore, CA: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/cessnaflyer123/liv.jpg
and one more here: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/cessnaflyer123/live2.jpg
For all those prospective students looking at Sierra, here is a photo of our new facilities in Livermore, CA: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/cessnaflyer123/liv.jpg
and one more here: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/cessnaflyer123/live2.jpg
flyguy
Well-Known Member
I guess they have been fixing the ADFs now because the missed approach of the ILS requires it, so we can't come in without it if its actual conditions. But all the rest of the non-essential equipment gets defered, so it'll be nice to put an end to that.
Cessna_Flyer,
Don't suppose you got any photos of 01T this morning? I didn't have a camera with me. What's ironic is I was supposed to be flying it, but we squawked it becuase we couldn't get the left engine started. Minutes later the nose gear collapsed and it did a noseplant into the ramp.
[/irony] If that had happened as we were taking off/landing it could have been serious.
So back to the question of the # of Duchesses we have, I guess we'll only have 3 for a while.
Cessna_Flyer,
Don't suppose you got any photos of 01T this morning? I didn't have a camera with me. What's ironic is I was supposed to be flying it, but we squawked it becuase we couldn't get the left engine started. Minutes later the nose gear collapsed and it did a noseplant into the ramp.
So back to the question of the # of Duchesses we have, I guess we'll only have 3 for a while.
Flight_Watch
New Member
Ya that was bad news since you are working on your MEI. Why would the gear fail all on its own? I am not sure how you preflight the Duchess but are there any procedure to check if the gear will retract properly? Was the FAA examiner on board at the time? Good thing we have good mechanics. They will get it up and running soon.
Here are a few photos as requested:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/cessnaflyer123/IMG_0701.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/cessnaflyer123/IMG_0700.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/cessnaflyer123/IMG_0702.jpg
Here are a few photos as requested:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/cessnaflyer123/IMG_0701.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/cessnaflyer123/IMG_0700.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/cessnaflyer123/IMG_0702.jpg
flyguy
Well-Known Member
Actually I'm working on commercial multi. You might have misunderstood me a few posts back when I said in a couple weeks I'd be done with the Duchess until I begin working on MEI.
Anyway, what would make the nose gear retract? It had to have been a combination of things that went wrong. There is an air pressure switch in the pitot plumbing that will not allow for gear retraction below about 63 kts. That obviously failed. Also there was somthing that made the motor that runs the hydraulic pump kick on. Usually that only happens when we put the gear handle up. A lot of people at Sierra suspect that the mecheanic might have cycled the gear handle, though for the life of me I can't immagine why he would have done that. If not though somehow the switch was closed to make the gear motor kick on. Could have been a short circuit of some sort, who knows? The probable reason the mains didn't retract would simply be the weight of the plane holding them down. All I know is I was fortunate enough to have this not have happened to me when we threw the battery on to start the engines, or worse, it could have happened as we were taking off/landing. It may seem silly but I feel kind of lucky to be alive today. If that engine would have started, we would have been on our merry way with no indication that something was wrong with the gear.
As far as preflight, not much we can check to see that it will operate correctly. We look underneath to make sure the actuators and hydraulic lines aren't leaking and the frames aren't cracked etc. We make sure the handle is down before we turn the battery on, and once the battery is on we make sure the gear indicator lights indicate that all three gear are down and locked, though that's really more to check the operation of the lights as it should be pretty obvious that the gear is down. We're really more concerned with whether or not it will come back down once we retract it though, because if it won't go up, we can still land normally.
Examiner was not on board, but was on the ramp at the plane right next to us. He was backseating on part 141 flights today to make sure the instruction was up to par. For commercial we operate under part 61 so he wasn't too concerned with our flight. Besides, the back seats were removed from 01T a few days ago so he wouldn't have been able to come with us if he wanted.
Thanks for those photos. Those are awsome. Mind if I share those on the thread about this in the general board?
Anyway, what would make the nose gear retract? It had to have been a combination of things that went wrong. There is an air pressure switch in the pitot plumbing that will not allow for gear retraction below about 63 kts. That obviously failed. Also there was somthing that made the motor that runs the hydraulic pump kick on. Usually that only happens when we put the gear handle up. A lot of people at Sierra suspect that the mecheanic might have cycled the gear handle, though for the life of me I can't immagine why he would have done that. If not though somehow the switch was closed to make the gear motor kick on. Could have been a short circuit of some sort, who knows? The probable reason the mains didn't retract would simply be the weight of the plane holding them down. All I know is I was fortunate enough to have this not have happened to me when we threw the battery on to start the engines, or worse, it could have happened as we were taking off/landing. It may seem silly but I feel kind of lucky to be alive today. If that engine would have started, we would have been on our merry way with no indication that something was wrong with the gear.
As far as preflight, not much we can check to see that it will operate correctly. We look underneath to make sure the actuators and hydraulic lines aren't leaking and the frames aren't cracked etc. We make sure the handle is down before we turn the battery on, and once the battery is on we make sure the gear indicator lights indicate that all three gear are down and locked, though that's really more to check the operation of the lights as it should be pretty obvious that the gear is down. We're really more concerned with whether or not it will come back down once we retract it though, because if it won't go up, we can still land normally.
Examiner was not on board, but was on the ramp at the plane right next to us. He was backseating on part 141 flights today to make sure the instruction was up to par. For commercial we operate under part 61 so he wasn't too concerned with our flight. Besides, the back seats were removed from 01T a few days ago so he wouldn't have been able to come with us if he wanted.
Thanks for those photos. Those are awsome. Mind if I share those on the thread about this in the general board?
Flight_Watch
New Member
Go for it.
Thanks for all the answers to my questions by the way.
Thanks for all the answers to my questions by the way.
Flight_Watch
New Member
Recent photos of Sierra Academy taken from the air.
A view of Sierra on takeoff.
Flying over the Sierra.
Looking back at LVK after taking off from 7L. Sierra is on the right.
Nice green hills
A view of Sierra on takeoff.
Flying over the Sierra.
Looking back at LVK after taking off from 7L. Sierra is on the right.
Nice green hills
montanapilot
Well-Known Member
Re: Recent photos of Sierra Academy taken from the air.
those green hills are awesome.
those green hills are awesome.
EatSleepFly
Well-Known Member
Re: Recent photos of Sierra Academy taken from the air.
Looks like another planet compared to Ohio right now. I'm ready for spring.
Looks like another planet compared to Ohio right now. I'm ready for spring.
Flight_Watch
New Member
Re: Recent photos of Sierra Academy taken from the air.
Anyone hear the news that Sierra is going to be a 6 days a week school?
Any details?
My instructor told me today that we now have to start flying on Saturdays.
What a bummer!
I don't mind flying a lot but now we won't get the weekends off which are nice to have to spend with friends and family.
What do you other students think about this?
Anyone hear the news that Sierra is going to be a 6 days a week school?
Any details?
My instructor told me today that we now have to start flying on Saturdays.
What a bummer!
I don't mind flying a lot but now we won't get the weekends off which are nice to have to spend with friends and family.
What do you other students think about this?
BayAreaPilot
New Member
Re: Recent photos of Sierra Academy taken from the air.
Actually they are just changing the instructors schedules so that they still have 5 days on, 2 days off. They all have sundays off but the other day off is scattered throughout the week. Only the top three instructors have sat. and sun. off. They did this I believe because maintenance was getting a little overwhelmed with so many planes flying each day. this way, the flights are just spread out a little. If you and your instructor want to fly on his day off, then you will have last priorority.
Actually they are just changing the instructors schedules so that they still have 5 days on, 2 days off. They all have sundays off but the other day off is scattered throughout the week. Only the top three instructors have sat. and sun. off. They did this I believe because maintenance was getting a little overwhelmed with so many planes flying each day. this way, the flights are just spread out a little. If you and your instructor want to fly on his day off, then you will have last priorority.
Flight_Watch
New Member
Re: Recent photos of Sierra Academy taken from the air.
Ya I understand the 5 days on and two days off deal. They should just hire more mechanics instead of changing some many people's schedules around and making CFI's work on the weekends. The instructors didn't seem to be too happy about it. I wonder if it is just temporary?
I bet they wish the Cessna Pilot center deal had gone through right about now.
Ya I understand the 5 days on and two days off deal. They should just hire more mechanics instead of changing some many people's schedules around and making CFI's work on the weekends. The instructors didn't seem to be too happy about it. I wonder if it is just temporary?
I bet they wish the Cessna Pilot center deal had gone through right about now.
SFLAX
Well-Known Member
Re: Recent photos of Sierra Academy taken from the air.
It really sucks for students whom work on the weekends and the instructors that do to. I got screwed, but they will start to make exceptions and the system will fail. For myself, I only count the days till I get 1000.
It really sucks for students whom work on the weekends and the instructors that do to. I got screwed, but they will start to make exceptions and the system will fail. For myself, I only count the days till I get 1000.