New Hawaiian Dispatcher Contract

pljenkins said:
Not so much. DOT does have a definition of a "major airline" as one who's operating revenue meets or exceeds $1 billion annually. Skywest's revenue last year was $3.17 million. Envoy's is cloudy as it's still a wholly owned, but I'm about positive that as a business unit their net revenue is far short of a billion dollars.
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Check that annual report again. That number is in thousands. Skywest's 2014 operating revenue was over 3 billion dollars.
 
I wonder if the nature of the flying that Hawaiian does makes it more difficult for them to make a case to management that they deserve more money. The Hawaii airports are VFR most of the time and never have any ATC flow programs. The flying they do to destinations outside of Hawaii is mostly to destinations that have good weather (in aviation operation terms) most of the year and there are only so many route and diversion options enroute from Hawaii to those places. Not many of their routes are pushing the max range of the aircraft and outside of the inter island flying, most routes are flown at low daily frequencies.

In terms of the type of flying they do and the size of the airline, they are more like a LCC that does a lot of Florida or California flying then a regional or major airline. Their pay should be more like a JetBlue, Virgin or Spirit with a little extra added for the Asia and Australia operation they do.
 
Flagship_dxer said:
In terms of the type of flying they do and the size of the airline, they are more like a LCC that does a lot of Florida or California flying then a regional or major airline. Their pay should be more like a JetBlue, Virgin or Spirit with a little extra added for the Asia and Australia operation they do.
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I fail to see how ETOPS to Asia with crap wx, volcanic ash and typhoons to deal with equates to Florida or California flying. Not to mention having to sift through all those darn fir notams! ;-)
 
womanpilot73 said:
I fail to see how ETOPS to Asia with crap wx, volcanic ash and typhoons to deal with equates to Florida or California flying. Not to mention having to sift through all those darn fir notams! ;-)
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Their Asia network is very small. A few of their Asia markets aren't even flown at daily frequency. In the network as a whole, the flying they do is mostly to destinations with good weather mostly from the HNL hub that rarely experiences bad weather. Most of their network is inter island and US west coast flying. This is fairly easy flying to work with not many challenges.

Of course the Asia and Australia flying should get an extra override but for the dispatch group as a whole, the whole of the network needs to be taken into account both in terms of size and complexity.
 
Flagship_dxer said:
Their Asia network is very small. A few of their Asia markets aren't even flown at daily frequency. In the network as a whole, the flying they do is mostly to destinations with good weather mostly from the HNL hub that rarely experiences bad weather. Most of their network is inter island and US west coast flying. This is fairly easy flying to work with not many challenges.

Of course the Asia and Australia flying should get an extra override but for the dispatch group as a whole, the whole of the network needs to be taken into account both in terms of size and complexity.
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I think the guys out there at Hawaiian deserve every last penny they can get. Their dispatching methods are pretty barebone and manual compared to the rest of carriers dispatching in an ETOPS capacity.

You can always tell the guys who have never had to read through 50 pages of NOTAMS before they even start building a flight plan and call it "not complex". And if memory serves right, isn't it a standard rule at Hawaiian that any dispatcher who has a diversion other than for medical or circumstances beyond their control (plane decides to turn into a fireball) automatically gets suspended?
 
Hecklers2002 said:
I think the guys out there at Hawaiian deserve every last penny they can get. Their dispatching methods are pretty barebone and manual compared to the rest of carriers dispatching in an ETOPS capacity.

You can always tell the guys who have never had to read through 50 pages of NOTAMS before they even start building a flight plan and call it "not complex". And if memory serves right, isn't it a standard rule at Hawaiian that any dispatcher who has a diversion other than for medical or circumstances beyond their control (plane decides to turn into a fireball) automatically gets suspended?
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No you don't get suspended.

As far as comparison. Hawaiian is a niche carrier. Not quite Delta or United but not Allegiant or Frontier. The starting pay should be near JetBlue and Virgin American. Used to work there but not going to bash the place. But suffice to say they are underpaid and need better language in the contract.
 
Flagship_dxer said:
Their Asia network is very small. A few of their Asia markets aren't even flown at daily frequency. In the network as a whole, the flying they do is mostly to destinations with good weather mostly from the HNL hub that rarely experiences bad weather. Most of their network is inter island and US west coast flying. This is fairly easy flying to work with not many challenges. Of course the Asia and Australia flying should get an extra override but for the dispatch group as a whole, the whole of the network needs to be taken into account both in terms of size and complexity.
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Here's a thought. They are a major airline, dispatching wide body birds in ETOPS environments that can present challenges on a daily basis just like any other airline going to the same destinations. They deserve industry standard at the very least.
 
PHL_Approach said:
A carrier that is a Major but operates with a Regional mindset. The exodus of HA Dispatchers continues. There was a guy in my class at my current shop that was born and raised in Hawaii and left HA to come work as a Dispatcher on the Mainland. That speaks volumes of employee relations there IMO.

EDIT: Oh yea and I heard about this contract. Pay cuts included. The TWU Local that represents Hawaiian doesn't care about them. Leadership rarely goes out to speak to the membership and update them. Sounds like they need to find a better Union. Not nessecarily PAFCA but even a random union would be better than TWU treats them. As a red-headed step child.
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Sounds like ExpressJet!
 
Of course the only bad thing about dispatching at Hawaiian is you have the Ken and Kent show. Yes it is an inside joke but for those who understand the pun, you will know what I am talking about.
 
Anyone know if Hawaiian still does the rotating schedule every week? Also, what they're current pay scale like? What's it like living there on what they pay? Is it feasible to commute daily for a shift from another island?
 
Socks and sandals said:
Anyone know if Hawaiian still does the rotating schedule every week? Also, what they're current pay scale like? What's it like living there on what they pay? Is it feasible to commute daily for a shift from another island?
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From a friend who currently works there...

Yes. We rotate 4 on, 2 off, 4 on, 2 off, 4 on, 4 off, repeat. Every rotation you you change times. Ex: you work 2am-10am, off 2 days, work 10am-6pm, off 2 days, work 10pm-2am, off 4 days and repeat.

Starting pay for assistants is $35k/year.

Top out for dispatchers is currently $78k/year.

Approx upgrade time 1-2 years.

It is possible to commute - you need to catch a ride on Aloha Air Cargo or Trans Air Cargo.

Downsides... COL extremely high. Current contract expired in 2013 and they just voted down another. It will likely be 2016 before another is presented. There is no relocation assistance or annual bonuses of any kind.

In my personal opinion, if you are single and it's your first job out of dispatch school, you could do worse. It would be good experience to gain to get to where you really want to go. Hope all of this helps. :-)
 
womanpilot73 said:
We rotate 4 on, 2 off, 4 on, 2 off, 4 on, 4 off, repeat. Every rotation you you change times. Ex: you work 2am-10am, off 2 days, work 10am-6pm, off 2 days, work 10pm-2am, off 4 days and repeat.
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This sounds just horrible to me. I have gone back and for between working mornings and afternoons for a while and that was bad enough. I would never want graveyards included...ugh.

It may indeed be a decent first gig if you're single but that salary in Oahu would make it hard to ever own a house or condo there. I wonder if it's one of those things where they feel like they can pay people less because a lot of people want to live in Hawaii. Anyhow, I wish the dispatchers there good luck on getting a decent contract but sounds like it will take a while.
 
manniax said:
This sounds just horrible to me. I have gone back and for between working mornings and afternoons for a while and that was bad enough. I would never want graveyards included...ugh.

It may indeed be a decent first gig if you're single but that salary in Oahu would make it hard to ever own a house or condo there. I wonder if it's one of those things where they feel like they can pay people less because a lot of people want to live in Hawaii. Anyhow, I wish the dispatchers there good luck on getting a decent contract but sounds like it will take a while.
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They have unlimited swaps so most try to make a normal schedule.
 
womanpilot73 said:
if you are single and it's your first job out of dispatch school, you could do worse. It would be good experience to gain to get to where you really want to go. Hope all of this helps. :)
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Is there anybody out there who started at Hawaiian and went directly to a legacy/major carrier on the mainland? I know of former HA dispatchers who left the island life to work at regionals in thoroughly unglamorous cities on the east cost. It's a decent first job simply because it is *A* job, but it sounds to me like a newly certified dispatcher is actually better off getting on with one of the regional carriers dba legacy brands in the contiguous states.
 
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