New FAA strategy... Maybe?

Maurus said:
Sadly the FSDOs seem happy to ignore National in order to protect their smaller carriers. From what I understand USA Jet is still 24/7 on call. They are Supplemental 121/135. I highly doubt we will see their 24/7 schedule disappear due to these changes.
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Um. That's not the change that occurred. The new compliance philosophy merely means that a pilot who deviates from a clearance accidentally will not be at risk of enforcement action. There's still a long way to go in terms of wholesale safety policy improvements. But this is a major step in the right direction.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
Um. That's not the change that occurred. The new compliance philosophy merely means that a pilot who deviates from a clearance accidentally will not be at risk of enforcement action. There's still a long way to go in terms of wholesale safety policy improvements. But this is a major step in the right direction.
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I know. People just happen to have legit doubts when concerning smaller entities that don't have a 3rd party such an ALPA to make sure the FSDO follows the rules.
 
Maurus said:
Sadly the FSDOs seem happy to ignore National in order to protect their smaller carriers. From what I understand USA Jet is still 24/7 on call. They are Supplemental 121/135. I highly doubt we will see their 24/7 schedule disappear due to these changes.

Many 135s and Supplemental 121s actively flaunt (Pilot recruiting) their illegal 24/7 schedule in the FAA's face and yet no one acts.

I believe the FSDOs will implement these changes at the larger air carriers since they will have ALPA and such to contend with but smaller carriers will be ignored unless FAA national decides to finally fix the FSDOs.
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There are no duty time limits for international 121 supplemental.
 
z987k said:
There are no duty time limits for international 121 supplemental.
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True but there is this one little gem.

(c) Each certificate holder conducting supplemental operations shall relieve each pilot from all duty for at least 24 consecutive hours at least once during any seven consecutive days.
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24/7 on call would still violate this.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
You guys realize that you're arguing with a guy who is a safety honcho at his airline and deals directly with the FAA, right?
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What's your point? If anything his proximity to the cool aide makes him suspect. I've heard this song and dance many times over the years. "We're the new, friendlier FAA." Every new Adminstrator says the same thing at Oshkosh. Things change for a while, but as soon as the administrator leaves it goes back to the old ways.

I really do hope I am wrong on this and that the FAA is going through a fundamental change. I am not optimistic that a person in charge of such an organization can single handily change a culture, however. I have dealt with them first hand and having been burned by being naive and assuming they were not out to improve safety through enforcement I would encourage every pilot to keep their mouths zipped around any safety inspector unless you have an equally well funded organization such as ALPA backing you.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
If it were only a proposed change I might agree with you. My frustration with you guys is that it is in effect right now as we speak, and I've seen it first hand. I've seen the written order. I've seen the result of the change in an ASAP meeting. I was at the last InfoShare meeting when all the FSDOs were present celebrating the change. I'm not sure what more it would take to convince you.
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I've seen the exact opposite though. We had a crew at our shop roll out onto the runway, and missed a checklist item. They caught it with the next checklist, and the power levers never got pushed forward. They filed ASAP's. It wasn't sole source because the tower has to ASAP an aborted takeoff. The fed that was looking at it was going for certificate action. The union and chief pilot went to bat for the guys and was able to get the fes to agree to a letter in their files for two years at the company. This wasn't even two months ago. So, it hasn't changed everywhere, and it most likely won't.
 
mshunter said:
I've seen the exact opposite though. We had a crew at our shop roll out onto the runway, and missed a checklist item. They caught it with the next checklist, and the power levers never got pushed forward. They filed ASAP's. It wasn't sole source because the tower has to ASAP an aborted takeoff. The fed that was looking at it was going for certificate action. The union and chief pilot went to bat for the guys and was able to get the fes to agree to a letter in their files for two years at the company. This wasn't even two months ago. So, it hasn't changed everywhere, and it most likely won't.
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October 1. That's when this changed. This might have gotten a letter of warning 2 weeks ago for us as well, but letters of warning and letters of correction are now removed for all accepted ASAPs.
 
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Blackhawk said:
What's your point? If anything his proximity to the cool aide makes him suspect. I've heard this song and dance many times over the years. "We're the new, friendlier FAA." Every new Adminstrator says the same thing at Oshkosh. Things change for a while, but as soon as the administrator leaves it goes back to the old ways.

I really do hope I am wrong on this and that the FAA is going through a fundamental change. I am not optimistic that a person in charge of such an organization can single handily change a culture, however. I have dealt with them first hand and having been burned by being naive and assuming they were not out to improve safety through enforcement I would encourage every pilot to keep their mouths zipped around any safety inspector unless you have an equally well funded organization such as ALPA backing you.
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1. This change isn't the work of this administrator. He merely supported a change that has been underway for a decade. It isn't an overnight change. It has been a serious struggle for 10 years. So yeah, I understand changing the FAA isn't easy. It took a decade to make this one.

2. My proximity merely means that I've seen it from several different angles up close and personal.

3. Frankly, I don't give a crap if you believe it, or even if it doesn't change at your FSDO. The fact is that it has changed at mine, and our CMO fully supports the change. The crews that my programs protect are even better protected now, and the safety of my airline will improve as a result. Therefore, I'm happy about this, and I came here to share my experience.

Of course there will be growing pains and rogue inspectors, but they will be realigned. Your company will be able to go to the POI to get it corrected.
 
I attended the Safety Standdown last week and heard the FAA manager of flight standards speak about the change at the FAA from the find, fix, fly, method to a more risk based decision making model. He said that the FAA is moving from a backward looking approach that punishes to one that collects data and looks to mitigate that hazard for the future. You can still watch his statements on the webcast from the standdown website, I don't know how much longer it will be up though.

I also attended a workshop on ASAP in 91 flight departments and was impressed with what has been set up by the Air Charter Safety Foundation. It is something that I am going to push our department to adopt to help us improve our SMS.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
1. This change isn't the work of this administrator. He merely supported a change that has been underway for a decade. It isn't an overnight change. It has been a serious struggle for 10 years. So yeah, I understand changing the FAA isn't easy. It took a decade to make this one.

2. My proximity merely means that I've seen it from several different angles up close and personal.

3. Frankly, I don't give a crap if you believe it, or even if it doesn't change at your FSDO. The fact is that it has changed at mine, and our CMO fully supports the change. The crews that my programs protect are even better protected now, and the safety of my airline will improve as a result. Therefore, I'm happy about this, and I came here to share my experience.

Of course there will be growing pains and rogue inspectors, but they will be realigned. Your company will be able to go to the POI to get it corrected.
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You don't get it. This isn't a personal attack on you, it isn't a matter of believing you or not believing you. It's a matter of having heard this from the FAA over decades in different forms and iterations. Do you KNOW what "realigned" means in the FAA? It means promoted. Yeah, when you get an over zealous safety inspector it's just easier to promote him/her to DC than try to get rid of them. At least that's been my observation. Screw up, move up.
If they truly mean it this time maybe they will go back through their records and expunge the certification action they took against pilots for very minor offenses when training would have been more appropriate that ruined their careers. Maybe they'll send a letter to Joseph Brenell's family apologizing for hounding him to his death.

If, as you posted earlier you do continue to fly GA I strongly encourage you to purchase AOPA legal insurance as your union and corporate connections may not help if you run into some of the safety inspectors I have run into. And if you do, I also strongly encourage you to not assume they have the same safety philosophy you do. Keep your mouth shut around them until you have a lawyer.
 
Seggy said:
I have vehemently disagreed with @PhilosopherPilot in the past over issues, but he is right here.

Folks don't get participation trophies for voicing their opinions here. Sometimes one needs to stop typing and read more than they write.
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And sometimes people need to read posts not as personal attacks, but as skepticism by people who have seen the song and dance before from the FAA.
 
Blackhawk said:
And sometimes people need to read posts not as personal attacks, but as skepticism by people who have seen the song and dance before from the FAA.
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I've never seen this same "song and dance" from the FAA, and I've been dealing with them for quite a while. I'm not opposed to skepticism where it's warranted, but this isn't really comparable to what's come before.
 
Having been curious about this I asked a friend that is an inspector at my local fsdo and he said it's true. ASAP won't have anything if accepted. He stated outside of ASAP inspectors now have "discretion" on if they need to pursue enforcement but if the individual is cooperative it won't lead to enforcement, they are instructed to use other means to correct.
 
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