SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Yes, Don, we know you hate ALPA and the IPA is perfect. 
New Eagle TA
- Thread starter bLizZuE
- Start date
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Gonzo said:
Trust me, I would love to engage but I am way too busy enjoying life and working with clients that bring me positive gains vs. dealing with ignorance.
I still check in here every so often, but it's not necessarily worth my time to go at it on the internet against those who are too spineless to say things in person.
However, I will say this. Organizationally, a number of MECs are significantly ill-prepared to handle crisis communication. Additionally, these same MECs fail structurally by limiting the role of communication strategists and specialists. Successful organizations in a handful of industries and arenas have director level or higher communication professionals guiding the process (Anyone care to look at Delta's senior executives by chance? Just one example) These folks are actively involved from the very beginning to make sure the organization's communication plan and organizational communication philosophy is honored. This helps maintain the integrity of the work being performed and raises the level of credibility and legitimacy of those who hold leadership positions. Further, these same individuals as communication professionals are considered executives and have just as much say about the strategic issue management of an organization as the organization's chief executive. While the communication arm of an organization may not be focused on the business processes or maximizing profits, they most certainly are focused on protecting the organization's legitimacy, credibility, and image which ultimately does impact the organization's chances of successfully executing their mission.
That is my biggest disappointment. When leaders fail to recognize their own pitfalls and display an egotistical inability to hold themselves accountable. Instead, they cling to a strategy of acquiring more power and protecting themselves rather than accepting the critical analysis that is right on their doorstep. Some folks really have no place in leadership positions, and that is about all I'll say about that.
I can speak for at least one MEC, but I know the problems I just brought up exist elsewhere, but one MEC I am intimately familiar with appears to finally be waking up to some of these problems they allowed to fester for way too long. I am not convinced yet, but cautiously optimistic that new leadership is open to embracing a larger communication philosophy that truly is transparent, prompt, and honest with the pilots he represents. Time will tell, and it won't take me six months to recognize any changes. They'll either happen or they won't - which for our pilots will be very telling and have the potential to either unify this pilot group around the Association or further distance this pilot group from the Association.
Last edited:
Jafari RastaMan
Well-Known Member
I think this is a valid point, and not just because it strokes my massive ego.
No, the real reason is that it points out the flaw in the reasoning of reps and committee members who are focused on appealing to what we referred to at AirTran as the "12 Angry Men" (the union message board crowd). When your focus is on making the angriest people cheer you on, you're not making the best decisions, because those guys don't have the slightest clue how things really work in labor/management relations. Sure, you made some guy happy and he came up to you in the crew lounge and said "yeah, John, you really showed those management dooshes with that communication!" But what did it do for your overall goals? Did it move you along towards improving the lives of your members? Or did it just feel good for the angry guys?
The last ALPA president, Captain Prater, was really big on every MEC having a strategic plan. The new ALPA president has carried on that tradition, but he's added something to it: "before you make every decision, ask yourself, is this going to help us or hurt us in reaching the goals on our strategic plan? Everything matters." Now, everyone knows that the grand poobah and I are not usually on the same page, but this is where he's got it right. Every decision you make has consequences. Every communication you send out will have one effect or another. Before you do those things, you need to stop and ask what that effect is going to be on your ultimate goals. Forget how it makes you "feel." Emotions are meaningless. Do what will advance your goals. And if someone suggests something that could knock you off track to reaching those goals, put a stop to it quickly.
This is solid advice.
Being tight and aggressive, while removing emotion is solid strategy that will result in success in many different areas of life.
Skyvector
Well-Known Member
John, honest question: Why were the E&FA slides (the ones posted on Facebook) not released to the pilots?
I'm not sure what happened or how...but word around the block is that upon seeing the results of that study a few MEC members went out of their way to make sure it wasn't released.
I don't know what happened if anything...but why did we have to see those slides on Facebook rather than having our Union present it to us?
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
That's actually not the norm. I've been a member of two other unions (non aviation) and in both cases union provided booze played a pretty big role in meetings and info sessions.
About two weeks ago our negotiating committee had a meet and greet with the pilot group. It was held at a restaurant/bar. The trip I was on finished about 5 minutes before the meet and greet was going to start so I was planning on heading over there right after work. The captain I was flying with said he had planned on going but then discovered he'd have to buy his own drinks so he wasn't going to go. As sad as it is, booze gets pilots to go to things.
Also, I find it ironic that the name of your union is a type of beer.
ross9238
Well-Known Member
I don't drink but I definitely understand the need to provide alcohol to those who will be attending or intriguing others that might not have thought of coming if that wasn't available. The idea of anything free (especially liquor) to a group that you are targeting, instantly will catch their eye and hence make the time to at least check out the event at hand - good marketing strategy. The meet and greet is a great way to get the message across on a personal level and the ability to have questions answered directly. Just my worthless opinion.
Anyway, good luck to the eagle pilots and I hope everything works out well for you.
Anyway, good luck to the eagle pilots and I hope everything works out well for you.
CFIscare
Well-Known Member
For what it's worth, I have never spoken to any Eagle pilot who is mad at the concept of an open bar for the union membership. Nor have I spoken to any Eagle pilot who would be mad at its union leadership for enjoying a drink or two after a hard days work. However, I have spoken to many who were upset about what they considered excessive drinking by its union leadership at a difficult time for the pilot group. It's understandable that people would be upset when their union leadership is spending thousands of dollars on booze while at the same time telling the pilot group they need to accept concessions worth thousands of dollars. No matter how normal it is, it's not smart on the leadership team to have done that.
JohnGardner
Member
Busy couple of days and I'm getting on an airplane in a minute. I.will get to replying to all the posts here but I wanted to get back to this one since I had a minute.
I saw that rumor as well and I'm not sure where it came from but it is total bunk. The MEC was not shown something or told something that caused them to suck wind and change their vote. That's utter nonsense and it never happened.
the reason those slides were not shown to the pilots are basically two. First they contain NDA and should not be posted publicly. second they don't really contain useful information. There are people acting like it is something important and super secret. I just don't understand that. If we have an agreement on the flow it doesn't matter what the company chooses to do to their fleetthey will be required to honor the agreement.this is not information that we kept from the pilot group. As for why they were posted on facebook, see earlier comment about people working against unity. Ask them.how they got them and why they posted them and what they are supposed to show that is important.
Skyvector
Well-Known Member
Thanks for answering the question...and your explanation is fair enough. I hate to belabor the point but I still don't see what harm it would have been releasing that information. Why was it commissioned in the first place if there was no intent to take it seriously? What about it is NDA?
I just feel that by not releasing it, only to have it surface anyway creates a Streisand Effect where you draw more attention to it than you wanted.
The E&FA presentation only shows flow and upgrade estimations based on age 65 retirements at AA. There is nothing wrong with showing those numbers unless they don't support your argument. I'm not referring to you personally and I'm not attacking you, just saying that those are clear numbers done by an independent source.
From where the pilot group is standing (aka outside of the Union executive sessions) it appears as if 4 or 5 LEC members saw the E&FA numbers, thought it would support a YES vote a little too much and tried blocking it by slapping NDA titles all over it.
Again, I'm not directing this towards you personally and I really don't know either way. But that is the perception it has left behind and I really don't see the harm in releasing a harmless study such as that one.
JohnGardner
Member
Streisand fact?! LOL I've never heard that term and it cracked me up!
It's kind of hard for me to point to what is NDA in the slides without crossing the line. It's there. Like I said the info is not awesome, it isn't damaging, it's not something anyone would hide. It wasn't something from the recent DC meeting, and I had to think hard when we actually saw it. It really is not a big deal, and I'm having a hard time seeing how it would be supportive of either viewpoint. The reason E&FA looked at it, I think, has to do with why it's NDA. Sorry if that sounds convenient, but it really isn't since the slides are out there. I can't hide something that is already been posted. If you can think of some way this is significant, please post it, seriously.
Thanks for the civility.
It's kind of hard for me to point to what is NDA in the slides without crossing the line. It's there. Like I said the info is not awesome, it isn't damaging, it's not something anyone would hide. It wasn't something from the recent DC meeting, and I had to think hard when we actually saw it. It really is not a big deal, and I'm having a hard time seeing how it would be supportive of either viewpoint. The reason E&FA looked at it, I think, has to do with why it's NDA. Sorry if that sounds convenient, but it really isn't since the slides are out there. I can't hide something that is already been posted. If you can think of some way this is significant, please post it, seriously.
Thanks for the civility.
Oxman
Well-Known Member
So I just got this email from AE through airlinesapps.....
American Eagle Airlines and its pilots, represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, have reached a Tentative Agreement (TA) for the Pilots to vote on for ratification. This TA will offer increased flow to American Airlines for current American Eagle pilots. It will also offer flow through to future new hire pilots. This is an industry leading flow through agreement. Below, we have supplied a bullet point discuss on the TA.
Pilots who have not yet reached ATP minimum flight time can still apply and be considered for an interview. Selected pilots will be placed into new hire training once they meet ATP minimums and complete the ATP written exam. Don’t hesitate to apply and get to ball rolling towards a career with American Eagle.
To apply with American Eagle Airlines, complete an application at www.AirlineApps.com. Make sure you target American Eagle and complete the AE addendum section. We have also added a recommendation link in the American Eagle addendum section. You can now add recommendations directly to your AirlineApps profile. We look forward to hearing from you!
http://www.americaneaglecareers.com/Jobs/Pilots.html
Bullet Point Discussion:
• Guaranteed fleet commitment
o Minimum of 170 aircraft commitment for each of the next 10 years
o Expectations to grow significantly beyond that number throughout this period
o This is far better than anything of its kind in the regional industry, and obviously offers substantially increased job security and stability for all of our pilots and your families
• Guaranteed new, large aircraft
o Minimum of 60 new E175s, with deliveries starting later this year
o Options for 90 more E175s
o This also is far better than anything of its kind in our industry, offering you a guaranteed opportunity to more higher-paying aircraft and career progression opportunities
• Guaranteed enhanced flow-through to largest airline in the world
o Each month that American hires pilots, all of those hires up to at least the 30th hire will be Eagle flow-through pilots
o Beyond those up to 30 initial Eagle flow-through hires in any given month, a minimum of at least 30 pilots or 50% of American’s additional pilot hires that month will be Eagle flow-through pilots
o Eagle flow-through pilots will be automatically hired and our pilots will not undergo a pre-hire screening at American
o Written promise of Eagle to cut block hours if needed to meet the Company’s flow-through requirements
o Preferential pilot hiring opportunities at legacy US Airways, pending the single carrier determination (and the hires at US will not reduce American’s flow-through hiring requirements described above)
o Again, all of this is far better than anything of its kind in our industry – indeed, independent regionals such as Republic cannot even pretend to offer anything comparable
• Competitive pay rates , with no reduction in any pilot’s current pay rate
o Signing bonus for all pilots
• Re-Opener Opportunities
o Opportunity in March 2019 for parties to review and negotiate changes regarding up to five (5) quality of life issues
o Provision for binding interest arbitration
o Reopener of the entire contract starting one year prior to the amendable date
• Long-term stability for our Company as a regional airline
o “No Furlough” protection. This is a tremendous plus for all of us, in an industry that has been continuing to undergo dramatic changes -- with a potential for more changes on the horizon
• Added job security
o The added job security that comes from our long-term stability will benefit our pilots and all of our employees -- including those pilots who choose not to flow through
What say everybody?
American Eagle Airlines and its pilots, represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, have reached a Tentative Agreement (TA) for the Pilots to vote on for ratification. This TA will offer increased flow to American Airlines for current American Eagle pilots. It will also offer flow through to future new hire pilots. This is an industry leading flow through agreement. Below, we have supplied a bullet point discuss on the TA.
Pilots who have not yet reached ATP minimum flight time can still apply and be considered for an interview. Selected pilots will be placed into new hire training once they meet ATP minimums and complete the ATP written exam. Don’t hesitate to apply and get to ball rolling towards a career with American Eagle.
To apply with American Eagle Airlines, complete an application at www.AirlineApps.com. Make sure you target American Eagle and complete the AE addendum section. We have also added a recommendation link in the American Eagle addendum section. You can now add recommendations directly to your AirlineApps profile. We look forward to hearing from you!
http://www.americaneaglecareers.com/Jobs/Pilots.html
Bullet Point Discussion:
• Guaranteed fleet commitment
o Minimum of 170 aircraft commitment for each of the next 10 years
o Expectations to grow significantly beyond that number throughout this period
o This is far better than anything of its kind in the regional industry, and obviously offers substantially increased job security and stability for all of our pilots and your families
• Guaranteed new, large aircraft
o Minimum of 60 new E175s, with deliveries starting later this year
o Options for 90 more E175s
o This also is far better than anything of its kind in our industry, offering you a guaranteed opportunity to more higher-paying aircraft and career progression opportunities
• Guaranteed enhanced flow-through to largest airline in the world
o Each month that American hires pilots, all of those hires up to at least the 30th hire will be Eagle flow-through pilots
o Beyond those up to 30 initial Eagle flow-through hires in any given month, a minimum of at least 30 pilots or 50% of American’s additional pilot hires that month will be Eagle flow-through pilots
o Eagle flow-through pilots will be automatically hired and our pilots will not undergo a pre-hire screening at American
o Written promise of Eagle to cut block hours if needed to meet the Company’s flow-through requirements
o Preferential pilot hiring opportunities at legacy US Airways, pending the single carrier determination (and the hires at US will not reduce American’s flow-through hiring requirements described above)
o Again, all of this is far better than anything of its kind in our industry – indeed, independent regionals such as Republic cannot even pretend to offer anything comparable
• Competitive pay rates , with no reduction in any pilot’s current pay rate
o Signing bonus for all pilots
• Re-Opener Opportunities
o Opportunity in March 2019 for parties to review and negotiate changes regarding up to five (5) quality of life issues
o Provision for binding interest arbitration
o Reopener of the entire contract starting one year prior to the amendable date
• Long-term stability for our Company as a regional airline
o “No Furlough” protection. This is a tremendous plus for all of us, in an industry that has been continuing to undergo dramatic changes -- with a potential for more changes on the horizon
• Added job security
o The added job security that comes from our long-term stability will benefit our pilots and all of our employees -- including those pilots who choose not to flow through
What say everybody?
eightballfreight
Mission accomplished
If they lie to you, what is your recourse? Nothing.
If they get you in their seniority list they know you will probably stay.
Selling possibilities.
If they get you in their seniority list they know you will probably stay.
Selling possibilities.
bLizZuE
Calling for engine starts en français
Excerpt taken from PlaneBusiness Banter by Holly Hegeman, Editor. Reproduced with permission from the editor.
Friday March 21, 2014, Volume 18, Issue 11
Speaking of the regional airline sector, the pilots at American Eagle continue to vote on the tentative agreement proposal the Air Line Pilots Association MEC put out for a vote. The voting period on the TA ends next week, so we will then have an answer as to whether American Airlines will be using American Eagle to fly those sixty new Embraer E-Jets, or whether the flying will be dispersed amongst the list of regionals that bid for the work. As we mentioned previously, that RFP which breaks the flying up into three sets of 20 aircraft each has already gone out for bids.
I want to take a few minutes and talk about this vote, as I think it is one of the most important union votes we've seen in the industry of late. First of all, I would like to say to the leaders of the ALPA MEC who refused to recommend to members of their union how they should vote on this agreement -- shame on you. Abstention is not an option. (Three members voted to recommend the agreement to members, while six members abstained.) The members of your union elected you to represent them. They don't have the same level of access to management discussions and negotiations that you have. They don't have access to the same information on a national ALPA scale as you have. You were elected to represent them in situations just like this.
For a member of the Eagle MEC to stand on the sidelines, pull the political card, and not provide more guidance to members on such an important vote is, well, shameful.
Hope you guys can sleep at night.
Having said that, I want to say a few things about this proposed contract because there is a lot of bad information out there concerning it. I think American Eagle pilots need to vote yes, not no.
1) The number one misperception about this agreement that I have heard over and over again is that Eagle management will come back to ALPA if the union votes down the deal because no other regional will be able to hire pilots to staf the new flying.
If you are an American Eagle pilot and this is why you are going to vote no, you are in for a rude awakening. Is not going to happen. RFPs are out. There are hungry stand-alone regional airlines out there ready to pounce.
They will find the pilots.
2) On the reverse side of the argument, another misperception is that Eagle won't be able to hire anyone. I decided to ask around and see just how the hiring pool looks at American Eagle. Since we've heard mixed messages from other regional airlines of late, (including some mild hysteria) and since it would stand to reason that a job at Eagle, with a flow-through, would be better than a job at a standalone regional, guess what we found out?
According to more than one source (and they both coincide so I am going to go with the numbers) between the time that the first agreement was reached until the time the MEC voted not to send it out, weekly pilot applications went from 8 per week to 66 per week. Applications then dropped to only about 3 or 4 per week after the MEC voted not to send the deal out. Makes sense.
What does this tell you? It tells me that American Eagle with a pilot contract is looked upon as a desirable place for pilots to work.
How are applications looking now? I was told that after the "new" TA was reached, there was yet another spike in applications. Weekly applications are now back in the 50 to 55 per week range. And I am told the overwhelming majority of those applicants are qualified to fly the airplanes that need to be flown.
3) The flow-through agreement. What is the dif erence between what is in place now and what will be in place in the future if the TA passes?
Today, Eagle provides 50% of the monthly new hire class to American. If the class is 40, Eagle supplies 20. Under the new deal, 100% of the first 30 pilots American hires in a month will come from Eagle. That is a significant improvement, especially if American is hiring smaller classes, like 20 per month. Previously, only 10 would have flowed through to American; under the terms of the new contract, it would be all 20.
So if the class is 30, it is all Eagle. If it is 40, 30 are Eagle. Granted, if the new class is 60, only 30 will be Eagle. But that would still be 50% -- the same as the current agreement.
4) As best I can tell, not one pilot takes a paycut as part of this deal.
First Officers below 8 years and Captains below 12 years will still get step increases, Captains in years 15 to 17 will keep getting annual increases, First Officers who are promoted to Captains will get huge pay increases, and Captains who flow through to American will obviously hit the jackpot.
5) This deal guarantees 170 aircraft. The contract between Delta and Endeavor only guarantees 81.
Oh, and another thing I learned this week. While Endeavor pilots do have flow-through rights -- they only have 12 a month. In addition, they have to interview at Delta. Sources tell me that less than half of them are receiving job offers. All of Eagle's flow-through pilots will get an offer because there is no interview.
So why are pilots telling me they are going to vote no? Two main reasons.
1) "The only way to attract pilots is to raise pay and benefits." (See above. Apparently American is not having trouble getting applications.) I'm sure a lot of people would like to see the entire regional/mainline system gutted and changed -- I know I would. But this contract is not going to do that. Nor will this happen if the contract is not approved. But not approving this contract could make the lives of American Eagle pilots much worse. Sorry. Wish I could say otherwise. So if you want to vote no and "stand for the cause" it's not going to end well. As I said, those RFPs are already out there.
2) "Mainline carriers are making record profits. We want more."
Unfortunately, that is not how the broken regional airline model in the U.S. works. Or doesn't work. How it works right now is this: there are regional airlines out there that will bid on these RFPs at rates lower than the costs contained in this TA. That's a fact. A sad fact. It is the model that is broken. Given the constraints of that broken model, I say a "yes" to this contract beats the alternative.
We'll all find out which way the vote goes next week.
Friday March 21, 2014, Volume 18, Issue 11
Speaking of the regional airline sector, the pilots at American Eagle continue to vote on the tentative agreement proposal the Air Line Pilots Association MEC put out for a vote. The voting period on the TA ends next week, so we will then have an answer as to whether American Airlines will be using American Eagle to fly those sixty new Embraer E-Jets, or whether the flying will be dispersed amongst the list of regionals that bid for the work. As we mentioned previously, that RFP which breaks the flying up into three sets of 20 aircraft each has already gone out for bids.
I want to take a few minutes and talk about this vote, as I think it is one of the most important union votes we've seen in the industry of late. First of all, I would like to say to the leaders of the ALPA MEC who refused to recommend to members of their union how they should vote on this agreement -- shame on you. Abstention is not an option. (Three members voted to recommend the agreement to members, while six members abstained.) The members of your union elected you to represent them. They don't have the same level of access to management discussions and negotiations that you have. They don't have access to the same information on a national ALPA scale as you have. You were elected to represent them in situations just like this.
For a member of the Eagle MEC to stand on the sidelines, pull the political card, and not provide more guidance to members on such an important vote is, well, shameful.
Hope you guys can sleep at night.
Having said that, I want to say a few things about this proposed contract because there is a lot of bad information out there concerning it. I think American Eagle pilots need to vote yes, not no.
1) The number one misperception about this agreement that I have heard over and over again is that Eagle management will come back to ALPA if the union votes down the deal because no other regional will be able to hire pilots to staf the new flying.
If you are an American Eagle pilot and this is why you are going to vote no, you are in for a rude awakening. Is not going to happen. RFPs are out. There are hungry stand-alone regional airlines out there ready to pounce.
They will find the pilots.
2) On the reverse side of the argument, another misperception is that Eagle won't be able to hire anyone. I decided to ask around and see just how the hiring pool looks at American Eagle. Since we've heard mixed messages from other regional airlines of late, (including some mild hysteria) and since it would stand to reason that a job at Eagle, with a flow-through, would be better than a job at a standalone regional, guess what we found out?
According to more than one source (and they both coincide so I am going to go with the numbers) between the time that the first agreement was reached until the time the MEC voted not to send it out, weekly pilot applications went from 8 per week to 66 per week. Applications then dropped to only about 3 or 4 per week after the MEC voted not to send the deal out. Makes sense.
What does this tell you? It tells me that American Eagle with a pilot contract is looked upon as a desirable place for pilots to work.
How are applications looking now? I was told that after the "new" TA was reached, there was yet another spike in applications. Weekly applications are now back in the 50 to 55 per week range. And I am told the overwhelming majority of those applicants are qualified to fly the airplanes that need to be flown.
3) The flow-through agreement. What is the dif erence between what is in place now and what will be in place in the future if the TA passes?
Today, Eagle provides 50% of the monthly new hire class to American. If the class is 40, Eagle supplies 20. Under the new deal, 100% of the first 30 pilots American hires in a month will come from Eagle. That is a significant improvement, especially if American is hiring smaller classes, like 20 per month. Previously, only 10 would have flowed through to American; under the terms of the new contract, it would be all 20.
So if the class is 30, it is all Eagle. If it is 40, 30 are Eagle. Granted, if the new class is 60, only 30 will be Eagle. But that would still be 50% -- the same as the current agreement.
4) As best I can tell, not one pilot takes a paycut as part of this deal.
First Officers below 8 years and Captains below 12 years will still get step increases, Captains in years 15 to 17 will keep getting annual increases, First Officers who are promoted to Captains will get huge pay increases, and Captains who flow through to American will obviously hit the jackpot.
5) This deal guarantees 170 aircraft. The contract between Delta and Endeavor only guarantees 81.
Oh, and another thing I learned this week. While Endeavor pilots do have flow-through rights -- they only have 12 a month. In addition, they have to interview at Delta. Sources tell me that less than half of them are receiving job offers. All of Eagle's flow-through pilots will get an offer because there is no interview.
So why are pilots telling me they are going to vote no? Two main reasons.
1) "The only way to attract pilots is to raise pay and benefits." (See above. Apparently American is not having trouble getting applications.) I'm sure a lot of people would like to see the entire regional/mainline system gutted and changed -- I know I would. But this contract is not going to do that. Nor will this happen if the contract is not approved. But not approving this contract could make the lives of American Eagle pilots much worse. Sorry. Wish I could say otherwise. So if you want to vote no and "stand for the cause" it's not going to end well. As I said, those RFPs are already out there.
2) "Mainline carriers are making record profits. We want more."
Unfortunately, that is not how the broken regional airline model in the U.S. works. Or doesn't work. How it works right now is this: there are regional airlines out there that will bid on these RFPs at rates lower than the costs contained in this TA. That's a fact. A sad fact. It is the model that is broken. Given the constraints of that broken model, I say a "yes" to this contract beats the alternative.
We'll all find out which way the vote goes next week.
JohnGardner
Member
Haha, really. Posting this pay-for-blog shill here too I see. I'll say it here too - interesting argument she makes that the MEC should have voted no, then follows the company talking points down a strong vote yes path. She makes zero sense.
Gonzo
Well-Known Member
I might not agree with Holly on this post, but calling her a shill shows you know nothing about her history and what she has gone though to keep her site up and running.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Gonzo said:
So enlighten him...Just saying.
While I won't call her a shill. She runs a business like any other self-proclaimed analyst of our industry. Her only vested interest in the aviation, re: airline, industry is to keep original or regurgitated content on her blog.
Unfortunately she is viewed as a respectable source on matters that she has limited experience with and on.
This isn't because I find her analysis incorrect or incomplete, just that I see through it to her motives. Sadly, her content and that from Swellblog is used regularly as fodder from management teams.
So, yeah. There you go. Ignorant management teams not doing their own analysis of issues and relying on the findings/confirmation bias from a slightly credible blogger to help guide business decisions.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
That's your takeaway and you're a comm chair? I'd hope your reading comprehension is normally better.
She didn't say the MEC should have voted no. She said that it was poor form for 6 of them to abstain.
JohnGardner
Member
She knew if they voted it would be no. She admits, touts, that they have better knowledge than the line pilot, but then vilifies their decision. She does so because she thinks she also has better knowledge than the line pilot, as she has been briefed by the people paying her to write that piece. Evidence: she suggests it was "political". Abstention actually was an option. Evidence: they did it. She then lies and says they didn't provide the members with "guidance". That's bunk. The abstaining members have all provided explanation as to why they did what they did. She then runs down the company yes vote talking points to a T.
It's a shill piece, transparent and, "...well, shameful..."
Nothing wrong with my reading comprehension.
It's a shill piece, transparent and, "...well, shameful..."
Nothing wrong with my reading comprehension.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
After reading what you just wrote I'm going to go ahead and disagree pretty strongly with your last sentence.
EDIT: That was a hit and run on my part so let me clarify...
She is vilifying the leadership who abstained because their job (with their increased knowledge of the situation) is to pass that knowledge on to the pilot group. Obviously due to NDAs and confidentiality agreements they can't do that directly, so they way they do that is through a thumbs up or thumbs down of a deal. Abstaining isn't doing that and while yes, it's allowed under Robert's Rules (and the ALPA Bylaws) it is a failure of leadership to lead. If the deal didn't meet their (or their constituents expectations and needs then vote it down). If they liked it or felt that the pilots should get final say by a membership vote, vote yes. Doing what they did was a chicken way out and that's what she is vilifying. I didn't see her say anywhere that she knew more than the line pilots, although with her contacts across the industry and at ALPA I'd guess she does. The decision to abstain WAS political. Otherwise they would have voted no like they did the last two times. What guidance was provided to members? Those 6 guys all justified what they did but none of them actually but their leadership position on the line and voted. That's not guidance. And yes, she does run down the company points but as has been pointed out by a whole lot of people across the industry both in management and labor positions, the company points are pretty damn class to the reality of the situation.
Look, I hope the vote fails tomorrow (well, today for most of y'all now) by 80% or more. But either way, your leadership screwed up and lost a lot of credibility to both the pilot group by not providing clear guidance and to management during future negotiations (if there are any) by not provide a somewhat unified front and path forward.
Last edited:
ClarkGriswold
Non Nutritive Cereal Varnish Engineer
Other forum is reporting it was a no.